Flynn Steel by Fred Layman

George Geisser · Post by **George Geisser** » 13 Feb 2019 3:23 pm

So I've found an incomplete D10 Flynn steel that was never completed. The blonde Birdseye necks and body are flawless. It has 20 grovers, only changer for one neck minus pull rod changer fingers. Missing everything underneath, missing legs but has pedal bar and pedals. In new case $150!!
What are your thoughts? I'm certain that I could mechanically finish but am wondering if there are any Flynn owners or parts available

Johnie King · Post by **Johnie King** » 13 Feb 2019 3:59 pm

The case is worth $150 very good deal I wish I could find deal like that congratulations

Rick Trolinger · Post by **Rick Trolinger** » 13 Feb 2019 6:13 pm

I've got a Flynn guitar and I like mine. It's a bit heavy, but plays well and stays in tune. I've never had a problem with it.

John De Maille · Post by **John De Maille** » 13 Feb 2019 10:53 pm

Harold Flynn used a lot of RusLer parts for his steels and I believe Fred did too.
You might want to contact Chuck Back, the builder of Desert Rose steels. He started using a lot of those parts in the beginning of his business. He could probably help you out. He's a great guy and a great builder.

George Geisser · Post by **George Geisser** » 16 Feb 2019 6:22 pm

Rustler pedals for sure! Thanks

George Geisser · Post by **George Geisser** » 17 Feb 2019 7:46 am

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 17 Feb 2019 8:33 am

Have you tried contacting Fred? Far as I know, he's still somewhere around Springfield Mo. and is a member here although he hasn't posted here for a bit.

He may be able to help direct your search for parts etc.

George Geisser · Post by **George Geisser** » 17 Feb 2019 9:03 am

Yes that's how I wound up with the steel. Unfortunately he passed away and the steel ended up in the Music store where I purchased it.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 17 Feb 2019 9:10 am

Fred passed away? I have not heard that. We had a scare here a couple years ago that someone had erroneously posted but I have not heard anything recently.

George Geisser · Post by **George Geisser** » 17 Feb 2019 10:24 am

The obit says he died March the 9th 2018 at 86 yrs of age. He had moved and remarried after his first wife died. I didn't know him but believe my buddies Jerry Menoun and Mike McGee did.

Alan Rudd · Post by **Alan Rudd** » 19 Feb 2019 5:24 am

Jump! I owned one of these years ago, and it was a very fine instrument. It was a 12 string or I would have kept it. I beieve Russler would be the way to find parts as Mr. Flynn built Russlers at one time, if I am not mistaken.

George Geisser · Post by **George Geisser** » 20 Feb 2019 3:52 am

Unfortunately this is all of the changer and I could use some help in the way of pictures to understand and complete the pull pull fingers. How they are attached and grounding points. Thanks guys

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 20 Feb 2019 5:23 am

Personally if I had that guitar which is a beauty, I would call a few modern builders and have a couple of current all pull changers installed either by the builders or someone like Jim Palenscar that understands the way the changer needs to be supported in the body, height from the deck of the guitar etc.. I would not hamstring myself with a pull release changer if I had to do a complete outfitting anyway.. get good modern stuff under there... bob

Doug Earnest · Post by **Doug Earnest** » 20 Feb 2019 12:23 pm

Sell it to Johnnie King and quit while your are ahead.

Paul Redmond · Post by **Paul Redmond** » 23 Feb 2019 7:33 pm

FWIW Harold's guitar changer and pulling system were patented and there were some good drawings which will show how the changer was designed. Fred Layman worked with Harold and a Kentucky patent lawyer to try to get a patent. They only came up with 4 claims. And, they rejected the application. The Flynn changer was basically built upside-down (the patent drawings will bear this out). From the right end, the changers looked no different than any other. Harold about cried because he knew his changer was definitely different than all others. Yes, he did buy RusLer, and in 1989 would buy out BosSan and all Harold Spain's machinery, tools, and materials. I was living in NC at the time his application was rejected. He called me up one day and wanted to know if I could go over his rejected patent and find out what to do to make it fly. He mailed me a copy overnight and I spent the next 3 days and evenings re-working everything. The patent lawyer really had a lot of stuff screwed up on it. In one view, he would have one ID number on a part, and in another view, he'd give that part a different number. That's a no-no. When the KY lawyer rec'd what I had written and corrected, he sent it to a Washington DC-based fellow lawyer who said that if the "new" application was submitted, it would be considered a new submission because so much had been changed from the original. So they cut a whole bunch of stuff out of my "new" application and inserted that stuff into the original application, then re-submitted the application before the deadline. I had provided 8 claims instead of the original 4. I have a feeling that's what made it fly. He received a patent. There weren't many Flynn's out there, so you have a rare piece. When Harold died, Fred Layman took over everything including a half-finished BosSan D-10. Fred dragged it around from pillar to post for years before emailing me to see if I wanted it and would actually finish it. It took 11 months, but I did finish it. It can be seen on the Forum under "The Last BosSan" thread. It was a lot of work, but the results were great. It's a heavy guitar and I don't take it out very often. I also don't want people getting too near the gorgeous lacquer!!!
The price was right. IMO it would be well worth the hours spent completing it. You may want to seek out other Flynn owners to get info like leg lengths and that sort of thing. That BosSan came to me with no legs or any of that stuff. The endplates were covered in masking tape. That allowed little "worms" to form on the shiny metal, so all those areas had to be touched up on the buffer. Harold Flynn's late wife died of Alzheimer's about 4 months after Harold died. At the time Harold died, when they told her about it, she didn't know anybody named Harold!!! She had a daughter living in the same neighborhood, but I never met her and don't know her name. BTW all the notes and drawings and records for the BosSan evaporated when Harold died. I would suspect the prints of the Flynn met the same demise. By trade, Harold was an architectural engineer, so prints and drawings were second nature to him.
Good luck on the project. You might get a bit frustrated at times, but never give up!!!
PRR

Ian Worley · Post by **Ian Worley** » 24 Feb 2019 12:26 am

Thanks for sharing that story Paul, great stuff. Is this the patent you're talking about, from '92? https://patentimages.storage.googleapis ... 092214.pdf

I see what you mean about the changer mechanism being sort of upside down, with the pivot for the raise scissor on the bottom. The fingers in the patent image don't have the guide slots on the bottom edge like George's guitar. Was that just an evolutionary change?

Paul Redmond · Post by **Paul Redmond** » 24 Feb 2019 9:14 pm

That's the one for sure.
PRR

Paul Redmond · Post by **Paul Redmond** » 24 Feb 2019 9:17 pm

As I recall, the slots were added to the changer fingers to hold the blades in better alignment....it prevented the rounded end of the blade from "skating" or deflecting when activated.
PRR

George Geisser · Post by **George Geisser** » 27 Feb 2019 6:24 pm

Thanks Paul and Ian for the info. I have been reading up on the Flynn and recently discovered the BosSan and just yesterday read your "Last BosSan" lol

Joe Bill Moad · Post by **Joe Bill Moad** » 8 Nov 2024 1:04 pm

Bob Carlucci:

I would rather have a BoSSAN and do own 1 than 20 of the new “so called”easier setups.
I will buy any Bossan that anybody wants to sell because they are a special instrument built by a Genius back in the day that reminds me of Ross Shafer in today’s market. Ross Builds a Special instrument and I would own one of his for sure. SOUND is my marker and BOSSAN is loaded with it!

My 2 cents

Jbm

Joe Bill Moad · Post by **Joe Bill Moad** » 8 Nov 2024 1:04 pm

Bob Carlucci:

I would rather have a BoSSAN and do own 1 than 20 of the new “so called”easier setups.
I will buy any Bossan that anybody wants to sell because they are a special instrument built by a Genius back in the day that reminds me of Ross Shafer in today’s market. Ross Builds a Special instrument and I would own one of his for sure. SOUND is my marker and BOSSAN is loaded with it!

My 2 cents

Jbm

Joe Bill Moad · Post by **Joe Bill Moad** » 15 Nov 2024 5:02 pm

Not saying that Mr. Layman’s guitar didn’t have the same sound(Never have heard it) my apologies if I mislead anybody.

Lead, Follow or get the Hell out of the way, “John Waynes” Popular Quote!
Intended for educational purposes only.

Respectfully

Joe Bill Moad
Let the Good Times Roll!
Oklahoma