Keyless PSGs

Mike Vallandigham · Post by **Mike Vallandigham** » 4 Feb 2018 4:53 pm

Nice. That's the one that came with my 2008 S-12. I love the aluminum handles.

I think the Excel changer has the ability for a tuning lock just as they come. It's just a matter of putting in the lever to actuate it. The E9/C6 is more due to the right knee levers, which have to change function with the lock lever. Mitsuo is a mechanical genius, it's so slick. I started out on D-10s, so the ability to have two full 12 string tunings in this small body it is great. I love them. Can you tell?

Enjoy that axe, they are special!

Johnie King · Post by **Johnie King** » 20 Jan 2024 9:57 am

Thanks!!

John Larson · Post by **John Larson** » 22 Apr 2024 6:48 am

What's a list of current builders still making keyless pedal steel guitars in 2024?

Hans Holzherr · Post by **Hans Holzherr** » 22 Apr 2024 6:55 am

John Larson wrote:What's a list of current builders still making keyless pedal steel guitars in 2024?

Schild (ONLY keyless)

Ross Shafer · Post by **Ross Shafer** » 22 Apr 2024 9:55 am

sierra also only keyless

Bruce Derr · Post by **Bruce Derr** » 22 Apr 2024 2:38 pm

Optional on Williams and GFI Ultra.

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 22 Apr 2024 4:01 pm

...and still Excel of course. The one I bought back in 2018 is still going strong as my gig guitar. The tuning stability remains awesome.

I notice that the very first response I got to this thread from Sonny mentioned Excel and Williams and I ended up with one of each! Both excellent but impossible to compare.

Mark Hariman · Post by **Mark Hariman** » 23 Apr 2024 4:53 pm

Ian Rae wrote:...and still Excel of course. The one I bought back in 2018 is still going strong as my gig guitar. The tuning stability remains awesome.

I notice that the very first response I got to this thread from Sonny mentioned Excel and Williams and I ended up with one of each! Both excellent but impossible to compare.

I've been intrigued by Williams guitars since a couple of my favourite players (Greg Leisz, Eric Heywood)use them. How do they compare sound wise with the Excel? Only asking as I recently took delivery of my S12 Excel and I'm loving it, but just curious to know what the Williams is like! Also, what pickup are you using on your Excel and Williams?

John Larson · Post by **John Larson** » 23 Apr 2024 5:24 pm

Mark Hariman wrote:
Ian Rae wrote:...and still Excel of course. The one I bought back in 2018 is still going strong as my gig guitar. The tuning stability remains awesome.

I notice that the very first response I got to this thread from Sonny mentioned Excel and Williams and I ended up with one of each! Both excellent but impossible to compare.
I've been intrigued by Williams guitars since a couple of my favourite players (Greg Leisz, Eric Heywood)use them. How do they compare sound wise with the Excel? Only asking as I recently took delivery of my S12 Excel and I'm loving it, but just curious to know what the Williams is like! Also, what pickup are you using on your Excel and Williams?

Eric is an absolute wizard on his.
Acoustic Guitar Sessions Presents Caitlin Canty

Mark Hariman · Post by **Mark Hariman** » 23 Apr 2024 8:57 pm

John Larson wrote:
Mark Hariman wrote:
Ian Rae wrote:...and still Excel of course. The one I bought back in 2018 is still going strong as my gig guitar. The tuning stability remains awesome.

I notice that the very first response I got to this thread from Sonny mentioned Excel and Williams and I ended up with one of each! Both excellent but impossible to compare.
I've been intrigued by Williams guitars since a couple of my favourite players (Greg Leisz, Eric Heywood)use them. How do they compare sound wise with the Excel? Only asking as I recently took delivery of my S12 Excel and I'm loving it, but just curious to know what the Williams is like! Also, what pickup are you using on your Excel and Williams?
Eric is an absolute wizard on his.
Acoustic Guitar Sessions Presents Caitlin Canty

I've never seen this before, thanks for sharing!

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 23 Apr 2024 11:04 pm

I have the same Alumitone pickup on both guitars. This was quite deliberate so that I could compare them.
They are very different designs. The Excel is Al-framed and innovative, the Williams is a very traditional maple box, and I make much the same sound on each - evidence that tone comes largely from the player.
The one slight difference is that the Excel, being long-scale, can cut through a loud band slightly better, but that is all.

John Larson · Post by **John Larson** » 24 Apr 2024 3:18 am

Ian, what is the scale length differences between the Excel and Williams?

Daniel McKee · Post by **Daniel McKee** » 27 Apr 2024 1:18 pm

I had been on the hunt for a new Universal 12 keyless and during covid so many companies were really having a rough time so after 3 failed attempts to order a new one, this gem popped up. A mid 90's Pedalmaster. Thinking about converting it to D13th

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 28 Apr 2024 1:08 am

John, the Williams is 24¼", which seems to be quite a common length these days, and the Excel is 25½", which makes finding a strong enough 3rd string a bit of a challenge. But once you get one to hold it stays in one piece.

Excel also make a regular scale. I didn't specify that when I ordered and Mitsuo built it long, presumably to give more definition to the bottom strings.

Daniel McKee · Post by **Daniel McKee** » 28 Apr 2024 10:56 am

Doesn't Excel charge just a little more for the long scale?
I bet that 25.5. inch scale would rock with D13th tuning. Those low strings would sound great

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 28 Apr 2024 12:18 pm

Daniel, I don't recall now how the invoice was calculated, but I do recall not asking for it and being surprised when I measured it. Maybe Mitsuo builds all his 12-strings long-scale. Anyway, no regrets. I can't comment on D13, but the low strings are less "flubby" than on other steels I've played.

Daniel McKee · Post by **Daniel McKee** » 28 Apr 2024 2:41 pm

Ian, you have a good point. I could see the 12’s being done long scale unless otherwise requested. The longer scale does help. I love every single thing about GFI except the shorter scale. If they offered a keyless in 24.5 or 25 I’d order one tomorrow !

J D Sauser · Post by **J D Sauser** » 29 Apr 2024 2:06 am

there is a looooong history of "keyHEADless" steel guitars, dating back to some non pedal steels.
Gene Field's Fender PS210 may have been the first keyless in the maybe about in time with Kline.

I long tried to get Carter into considering building a keyless option. John was somewhat open to it, but Bud felt one "couldn't control the overtones" on a keyless steel. He never explained to me what he meant with it.

BE, said many times that he felt his best C6th tone came off the Sierra keyless he had in the 90's. Other find that his best tone in post-pushpull and ShoBud years was on the MCI and later EMCI.

I feel that yes, keyless guitars loose even more of the "musical instrument"-look they inherently already tend to lack, to looking even more like strange machines. But I feel that the fact that it gives us an easy extra inch of scale length with even so, lower string tension on E9th's pesky high G# or C6th E below D, quicker action, less string hysterisis issues, which keyless is a good way to go.

... J-D.