how do you make a PSG cry or wine

Jerry Recktenwald · Post by **Jerry Recktenwald** » 1 Feb 2017 1:31 pm

On slow country songs the steel guitar makes a winy or crying sound. I am probably not calling the effect by the right name.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 1 Feb 2017 1:59 pm

You're probably talking about the combination of a mild vibrato and sustain.
The problem with the vibrato is that, unless it's subtle, it sounds like hell, but you can never learn a skill and start with subtle.
For the sustain part, turn your amp UP. My amps are all quiet powerful, and they're all turned up to 5, 6 or 7.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 1 Feb 2017 2:41 pm

There is a technique called bar shiver. The way I do it is to loosen my grip on the bar a little between my thumb and middle finger, and sort of toss it back and forth between then, while I'm sliding the bar from one fret to another, then tightening the grip up again when the desired fret is reached.

It's very easy to lose control of the bar while doing this. You have to work at it. The key word here is (drum roll please) PRACTICE, PRACTICE, and MORE PRACTICE.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 1 Feb 2017 3:00 pm

To get the vibrato, you can either roll it back and forth or shiver it. Learn both, as they sound different.

Jeff Metz Jr. · Post by **Jeff Metz Jr.** » 1 Feb 2017 3:45 pm

also try using strings 3 and 5 together for the high pitch crying sound.

Jerry Recktenwald · Post by **Jerry Recktenwald** » 1 Feb 2017 4:06 pm

I'll give everything a try. I'm trying to get that sound out of my steel but I'm getting it more out of my wife Please stop it[crying] just joking

The PSG is a whole new ball park compared to a 6 string guitar .

Don R Brown · Post by **Don R Brown** » 1 Feb 2017 4:18 pm

Jerry, Rule #1 is "Have fun!"

Keep messing around with it, you'll get there.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 1 Feb 2017 5:49 pm

For more specific guidance, what songs do you want to sound like?

Don R Brown · Post by **Don R Brown** » 2 Feb 2017 6:08 am

how do you make a PSG cry or wine

For more specific guidance, what kind of wine do you drink?

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 2 Feb 2017 9:02 am

Jerry, you don't say how long you've been playing. After a few years I am beginning to get some authentic noises out of the thing.

Singers and fiddle players can squeeze up to a note, but we can do it twofold with the bar and the pedals. Experiment with each and then combine them to excruciating effect. When Don says "have fun" he means go way over the top and then retreat to something half-tasteful.

Dale Rivard · Post by **Dale Rivard** » 2 Feb 2017 10:05 am

Tell it, it's no longer wanted or needed in modern country music. Nice one Don!

Brett Day · Post by **Brett Day** » 2 Feb 2017 10:26 am

I can do the crying or whining sound at the twenty-second or twenty-third fret on strings three and five(high strings) and do a little bit of vibrato. I can also do a crying sound on the third high string past the twenty-fourth fret towards the pickup and then, the whining sound can be done near the seventh or eighth frets with the A and B pedals down-sometimes it'll be strings four, five, and six, and moving the bar to the second or third frets while picking strings eight and ten, or sometimes strings eight, nine, and ten

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 2 Feb 2017 12:04 pm

Some of y'all are missing the point. It's not done at any specific point on the fretboard, though it requires left hand knowledge of both slow and fast vibrato, rolled more often than sliding, combined with a very subtle volume pedal technique.

The steel "cries" and "whines" because it's imitating the plaintive sound of the human voice, so the guitarist has to replicate the sounds of a singer "crying" or "moaning." When the player internalizes the lyrics and meaning of the song and plays his guitar with the same inflections that a vocalist would do, the crying steel guitar sound will occur naturally.

The technique that is required is to get both hands to control the instrument, just like a singer's technique is to control his voice. This takes some time, but it will come.

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 2 Feb 2017 12:52 pm

Herb has put very well what I failed to say in my post. You need to learn enough control of the instrument to be able to imitate what you hear vocalists (and expressive instruments) doing without analysing it.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 2 Feb 2017 1:27 pm

Well said, Herb.
Jerry, if you can point to some passages where you'll find the variety of cry that moves you, we can tell you where to find the notes, and how to execute it.
But your steel won't cry in your hands until the following stuff happens in your learning:
1) You learn where to find the notes in your head without thinking about where they are. Practice those stupid frustrating harmonized scales.
2) you can play passages you like with feeling: the good ones among us are actors without words.
3) you can heat stuff in your head and then play it with feeling.

We can help you with shortcuts, but in the words of the Osborne Brothers, they're only stepping stones. Fortunately most of us enjoy laying stepping stones. We'll try to help

Steve Hinson · Post by **Steve Hinson** » 2 Feb 2017 2:26 pm

Get some Conway Twitty records...whatever that guy did...do that.

You'll never sound just like him(nobody ever has)...

A great place to start,though...

Steve
Brand X

Jerry Recktenwald · Post by **Jerry Recktenwald** » 2 Feb 2017 2:43 pm

Well first I have the Mel Bay DVD for pedal steel. My problem O play regular guitar and know where my notes are form the first fret all the way up the neck.I play lead and like to play back up while some one sings.Now I need to know my notes on all of the strings so that I can play lead and fill in using the steel.I have been playing some what by ear but also using my knowledge of scales key;s. Where can I find the scale in E major something that I can print out not a video. so that I can look at put it together in my mind and understand. Then apply to all of the other key's In our band they say Jerry doesn't need the music just tell him what key it's in . But of course I have had my PSG sense this past Christmas I'll get just like I got the C6 lap steel. Lance the songs that I had in mind are Please release me After all this time Crazy Willie Nelson Your cheated heart I don't know if it's problem I believe that I trying to play the steel [ lead] like I play the regular guitar. Oh Lance where can I print out the harmony scales? Once again I want to thank everyone for your help!

Jerry Recktenwald · Post by **Jerry Recktenwald** » 2 Feb 2017 2:59 pm

This is our band Ps the wrong person is singing it too high of a key. You can see my lap steel I'm playing lead. Jerry

Jerry Recktenwald · Post by **Jerry Recktenwald** » 2 Feb 2017 3:00 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAOGFMAIglo forgot to past!

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 2 Feb 2017 3:09 pm

I believe the Jeff Newman material has the harmonized scales I'm sure someone else has some laid out somewhere.

Jim Fogarty · Post by **Jim Fogarty** » 2 Feb 2017 3:33 pm

"how do you make a PSG cry or wine"????

Let ME sit behind it.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 2 Feb 2017 5:51 pm

I'm not sure how to make a steel guitar wine, but I don't think this is the right way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUxjOS3g6Uc

Mitch Ellis · Post by **Mitch Ellis** » 2 Feb 2017 8:35 pm

Steve Hinson wrote:Get some Conway Twitty records...whatever that guy did...do that.

You'll never sound just like him(nobody ever has)...

A great place to start,though...

Steve
Brand X

Good advice. When I read the topic of this thread, "that guy" is the ONLY steel player that came to mind. I think the plaque reads something like " The undisputed master of bar shiver and high registry intonation." The great John Hughey. So...yes. Whatever that guy did, do that.

Mitch

Rich Upright · Post by **Rich Upright** » 2 Feb 2017 9:06 pm

The late,great Dickey Overbey was a master at "crying". YouTube Amber Digby or Kimberly Murphy as Dickey played with them both & watch what he does.

Bill Miller · Post by **Bill Miller** » 3 Feb 2017 8:57 am

John Hughey and Dickey Overbey are fine examples of injecting a lot of emotion into your playing. Both were masters.
I find volume pedal technique is a really big part of getting that moaning or whining sound. Pick hard with the volume off and as the strings are sustaining squeeze the volume on and off gently to milk out the sound you hear in your head.
I like the moaning sound you can get in the lower register just as well as the crying sound produced way up the neck.

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