Bass lap steel?

[Rose Sinclair]

Stumbled across this on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ted-Crocker-Bos ... 2261309823

[Dustin Kleingartner]

That's a pretty fancy Rayovac nut they have on there, does that means it's "active" (I've only seen passive ones until now) , and it can be yours now for only $500!

[Stephen Abruzzo]

Only 2 strings too!

[Alan Brookes]

It's a plank with pickup and tuners. Build one yourself in an hour if that's what you want.
I can never understand why people would buy junk when it takes very little talent to build a lap steel in whatever configuration you would need.

[Keith Glendinning]

That's a bit harsh Alan.
I agree it's simple to make an amateur, though playable Lap Steel, but other makers use the finest materials and state of the art equipment with outstanding results. What about the cast Aluminium ones that have been shown and heard here? Also Mr Piburn's and Mr Pettingill's products are rather special.
Having said that, there's always a buyer for a one-off quirky product.
Keith.

[Dustin Kleingartner]

I just went back and read the description, this guy really sells it. You will all be sad that this isn't in your collection , and the piston, and the way the piston is attached...hahaha

[Mark Eaton]

One could start with the "Little Boss" and maybe you will grow into the big kid's version.

Slide King Bass lap steel from Jackson

[John Ed Kelly]

What advantage would there be in using this sort of bass instead of the standard double bass or bass guitar?

Given that though, I think the Slide King Bass would be a tad more useable than the Ted Crocker instrument.

By the way, I don't play any sort of bass instrument, so maybe ''I know nothing'' as Manuel would likely say.

[George Piburn]

Pretty cool Bass

[Alan Brookes]

...it's simple to make an amateur, though playable Lap Steel, but other makers use the finest materials and state of the art equipment ...

Anyone can use the most expensive equipment and materials. I have grave doubts about whether the materials have any effect on the tone of an electric instrument. I've been building both acoustic and electric instruments for nearly 60 years. When I build acoustic instruments I use good tonewoods, because they really make a difference. For electric instruments, you might as well use plywood and offcuts from pallets. Build a toilet seat out of ebony or plastic and it performs the same function.

[Joe Elk]

Different Strokes for Different Folks.
Joe Elk

[W. Johnson]

...it's simple to make an amateur, though playable Lap Steel, but other makers use the finest materials and state of the art equipment ...

Anyone can use the most expensive equipment and materials. I have grave doubts about whether the materials have any effect on the tone of an electric instrument. I've been building both acoustic and electric instruments for nearly 60 years. When I build acoustic instruments I use good tonewoods, because they really make a difference. For electric instruments, you might as well use plywood and offcuts from pallets. Build a toilet seat out of ebony or plastic and it performs the same function.

I've only been building lap steel guitars for a couple of years, so, guess I'm a rank amateur. Anyway, I've made lap steel guitars from Eastern Maple, Mahogany, aluminum, and each have their distinctive tonal qualities and sustain qualities. Mahogany will have a more mellow warm tone, Maple produces a bright sound, and aluminum produces an extremely bright tone. My material of choice is aluminum, and I have to compensate for the brightness of the metal by the way that I construct the pickup, and also placement of the pickup (distance from the bridge.)

Through the body string mounting, or in the bridge string mounting, also affects tone and sustain, especially sustain. Using brass, aluminum, plastic, bone, for the nut/bridge will also change things up.

Every single aspect of the lap steel guitar, including materials used, affect both sustain and tone.

To say that only the strings and the pickup affect the tone, this is not supported by my short and limited experience and observations.

You yourself have commented about building a lap steel from stainless steel, and commented that it didn't sound good. Please correct me if I'm incorrect on this.

Now, ................. returning back to the topic of this thread...............

Regarding the 2 string bass guitar, you have to admit it is innovative and unique. Worth $500, um, no comment.

I've often wondered about a bass lap steel. Seems to me it might be difficult to get good tone, and probably a very heavy tone bar would be required? Perhaps I'll have to try making one sometime. (not with a piston, and perhaps use 4 strings maybe a P-Bass pickup settup, and something more than 2x4" size wood. ??

Wayne

[Mark Eaton]

Lonnie Bennett on SteelKing guitar with one palm lever and Zane King on the bass version at the Texas convention, March 2015. No doubt some of our members were in the room for this demo. Zane has put up some videos here in the past of the various iterations of the SlideKing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yL_vTNHkWI

Zane, presumably in his home studio playing the SlideKing bass with a backing track in a short video of 55 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r5fCNrvFDg

I'm not sure what it all means, a specialty bass lap steel. Is it "another tool in the toolbox" - or is it an instrument for "the steel guitarist who has everything."

[Alan Brookes]

...it's simple to make an amateur, though playable Lap Steel, but other makers use the finest materials and state of the art equipment ...

...I have grave doubts about whether the materials have any effect on the tone of an electric instrument...

...I've made lap steel guitars from Eastern Maple, Mahogany, aluminum, and each have their distinctive tonal qualities and sustain qualities. Mahogany will have a more mellow warm tone, Maple produces a bright sound, and aluminum produces an extremely bright tone. My material of choice is aluminum, and I have to compensate for the brightness of the metal by the way that I construct the pickup, and also placement of the pickup (distance from the bridge.)

Through the body string mounting, or in the bridge string mounting, also affects tone and sustain, especially sustain. Using brass, aluminum, plastic, bone, for the nut/bridge will also change things up.

Every single aspect of the lap steel guitar, including materials used, affect both sustain and tone.

To say that only the strings and the pickup affect the tone, this is not supported by my short and limited experience and observations.
You yourself have commented about building a lap steel from stainless steel, and commented that it didn't sound good. Please correct me if I'm incorrect on this...

Perhaps what I said was on over-simplification. Hardwoods do have more sustain with more overtones, whilst, as you rightly said, I once built a lap steel out of stainless steel and it was tone dead. I'm a definite believer in not having a separate neck, and having the strings passing through the body and anchored at the back. On the other hand, I've built lap steels out of swamp ash, which is what Fender used for many years, and, compared with ones that I've build out of cedar, there seems to be little difference.
Where the difference does show, and I've always believed this, is when you have an acoustic/electric instrument, such as an archtop guitar, and, to some extent, a console steel with a fixed back. The acoustical properties definitely get fed back through the pickups. Likening a solid lap steel to a console steel is like comparing a Telecaster to a Gretsch White Falcon. I have an old Rickenbacker D8 console steel with a sealed back, the sort that Don Helms used to play at one time, and when I compare it with a Stringmaster it's a totally different sound.

Sorry for going a bit off-topic. When it comes to having a lap steel equivalent of a bass guitar, I wonder how different that would be to having a fretless electric bass play the same part. I'm not going to be selling my Fender Precision Bass for some time. (Yes, I know it has frets.)

[W. Johnson]

...it's simple to make an amateur, though playable Lap Steel, but other makers use the finest materials and state of the art equipment ...

...I have grave doubts about whether the materials have any effect on the tone of an electric instrument...

...I've made lap steel guitars from Eastern Maple, Mahogany, aluminum, and each have their distinctive tonal qualities and sustain qualities. Mahogany will have a more mellow warm tone, Maple produces a bright sound, and aluminum produces an extremely bright tone. My material of choice is aluminum, and I have to compensate for the brightness of the metal by the way that I construct the pickup, and also placement of the pickup (distance from the bridge.)

Through the body string mounting, or in the bridge string mounting, also affects tone and sustain, especially sustain. Using brass, aluminum, plastic, bone, for the nut/bridge will also change things up.

Every single aspect of the lap steel guitar, including materials used, affect both sustain and tone.

To say that only the strings and the pickup affect the tone, this is not supported by my short and limited experience and observations.
You yourself have commented about building a lap steel from stainless steel, and commented that it didn't sound good. Please correct me if I'm incorrect on this...

Perhaps what I said was on over-simplification. Hardwoods do have more sustain with more overtones, whilst, as you rightly said, I once built a lap steel out of stainless steel and it was tone dead. I'm a definite believer in not having a separate neck, and having the strings passing through the body and anchored at the back. On the other hand, I've built lap steels out of swamp ash, which is what Fender used for many years, and, compared with ones that I've build out of cedar, there seems to be little difference.
Where the difference does show, and I've always believed this, is when you have an acoustic/electric instrument, such as an archtop guitar, and, to some extent, a console steel with a fixed back. The acoustical properties definitely get fed back through the pickups. Likening a solid lap steel to a console steel is like comparing a Telecaster to a Gretsch White Falcon. I have an old Rickenbacker D8 console steel with a sealed back, the sort that Don Helms used to play at one time, and when I compare it with a Stringmaster it's a totally different sound.

Sorry for going a bit off-topic. When it comes to having a lap steel equivalent of a bass guitar, I wonder how different that would be to having a fretless electric bass play the same part. I'm not going to be selling my Fender Precision Bass for some time. (Yes, I know it has frets.)

Awesome response Alan, thanks.

Wayne

[Mike OMalley]

If you aren't familiar with the band Morphine, the late Mark Sandman played 2 string slide bass. They were a very interesting band, mostly drums, two string slide bass and baritone sax

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL3t2yiLfSM


Having built multiple guitars and basses and two lap steels, I would agree that a lap steel is one of the easiest instruments in the world to build. It's a slab with tuners. You can take a 2x4 and put a pickup on it and it might sound great: the interactions of wood and pickups and strings are very hard to predict.

That being said there is always a joy in playing a well crafted, well finished instrument, and you are more likely to get a good sounding, good playing instrument if you buy it from someone experienced. Nice looking wood is relatively expensive and sometimes challenging to work

I was playing my homemade six string this morning and thinking about what I would do differently. I'd probably make it a shorter scale and tighten up the string spacing. to make slants easier, for example. If you buy a steel from an experienced player and builder those things have likely been worked out or can be adjusted to your spec.Those Pettingil steels are beautiful and well made.

I like the whimsy in that thing but I would not spend any of my money for what is obviously really lazy work. it's a cute idea but the execution is lame

[Charlie McDonald]

I wonder how different that would be to having a fretless electric bass play the same part. I'm not going to be selling my Fender Precision Bass for some time. (Yes, I know it has frets.)

Well rip them off!

It feels different. I've done both, with my fretless Precision (which I'd never sell) and extended E9 on a SD-12, which I did sell (but miss).
Very different. Depends on the tune.

[Stefan Robertson]

Have a Bass Guitar effect on my Multi-effects pedal. Its pretty weird but in the right context it can pass.

[Stephen Cowell]

I have one neck on my T8 Stringmaster set up bass... it's in Bb6, which works great for C6 with a 2-fret box below it. Lots of fun to play boogie-woogie bass parts, they fall in 6 tunings well. Unfortunately the SM's pickups don't do bass strings well... way down in output, since the pole pieces are smaller than the string on the lower end. Perhaps Sentell could wind me some huge polepiece pickups? Or perhaps a staggered set with P-bass style dual magnets.

I played the Jackson in Dallas... hope to do so again this year. Zane King does a great demo on this, others have posted the YT link. Slap and Jaco-style slides are really cool, if you get a chance try the Jackson.

[Alan Brookes]

...Unfortunately the SM's pickups don't do bass strings well...

If you're going to take the steel guitar down into the realms of the bass you really need bass guitar strings, machine tuners that will cope with them, and a bass guitar pickup. It's not enough to just lower the pitch of strings until they're slack. I've been there, done that, and failed. To get a real growling bass you need thick strings and a pickup designed for them.

[Stephen Cowell]

...Unfortunately the SM's pickups don't do bass strings well...

If you're going to take the steel guitar down into the realms of the bass you really need bass guitar strings, machine tuners that will cope with them, and a bass guitar pickup. It's not enough to just lower the pitch of strings until they're slack. I've been there, done that, and failed. To get a real growling bass you need thick strings and a pickup designed for them.

Well, Alan, I had the first two... and it's the last one I'm complaining about. Here's a repost of what I did with mine... just about the only way to get bass strings to fit an SM.

I just strung up my third neck (22.5") with .095-.038... I was able to work the ball ends out of some short-scale bass strings (Fender 5250XL) using needle-nose pliers, mixed with a few bass singles (expensive!) and other regular strings. Very cool... my ceramic bar doesn't work so well on them, having to use a big steel bar instead. Using Gmin/Bb6 with these gauges:

.038 F
.049 D
.060 Bb
.066 G
.070 F
.075 D
.086 Bb
.095 G

The needle-nose technique involved grabbing the ball end through the 'Y' so that the tip was just past the groove... you then spin the pliers, working the wire out of the groove like a tire on a changing machine. Once you get 1/3 of the way around you can take another tool and pop the wire over the edge of the ball. Squeeze the loop so that it will hold a regular ball, then bend the loop/ball (parallel to the squeezed direction) so it will go down into the keyhole on the plate easily. You can unwind some wrap if the loop is too tight, or if the wrap wire interferes with the pliers.

[W. Johnson]

Lonnie Bennett on SteelKing guitar with one palm lever and Zane King on the bass version at the Texas convention, March 2015. No doubt some of our members were in the room for this demo. Zane has put up some videos here in the past of the various iterations of the SlideKing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yL_vTNHkWI

Zane, presumably in his home studio playing the SlideKing bass with a backing track in a short video of 55 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r5fCNrvFDg

I'm not sure what it all means, a specialty bass lap steel. Is it "another tool in the toolbox" - or is it an instrument for "the steel guitarist who has everything."

I kinda like the idea of a bass slide guitar. The SlideKing, I hope to make myself a slide bass (possibly from aluminum?). I don't think I'll use a engine piston, though. I also liked the palm lever.

Wayne

[Tom Pettingill]

Fun idea, I like the muscle car theme. Unfortunately it falls a little short on execution.

A fat string thunder stick is something I've mulled around for some time. I can see where one might be a some fun.

[Dan Lawson]

i had a customer ask me to build him a lap steel bass. my takeaway from it was it is kinda cool. cant be used everywhere but bring it. i thought that the tone bar tended to stop the already low string vibration.so grabbing and holding a note was a trick. i will say i did not spend a lot of time playing it, putting her thru her paces so i will never know the full potential of this guitar. had to use a lace sensor acoustic bass pickup and it worked great

[Alan Brookes]

Why not just play a regular electric bass with a tone bar? If you rattle just put a nut riser on it, and if you don't like the string length just shove a bar between the fingerboard and the strings.