New Georgeboards and a revelation - wrong?

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 20 Jan 2005 11:44 am

Here is an update on my lap steel situation. I bought a Line 6 POD and ran the Gretsch through that and I think that will give me enough to play with for the moment on the 6 string.

Yesterday I got a Georgeboards 8 string console, currently tuned to C6. This is my first 8 string and I've got no background in C6 tuning so I was a bit lost. I was also trying to use a bullet bar that came with the steel. I started watching the Cindy Cashdollar DVD and.. I pretty much stank up the place.

Last night after playing my usual Wednsday night jam at the local bar, and after a few whiskey's I pulled the georgeboards off the stand, sat it in my lap, used my reso bar instead of the bullet bar and realized that I was basically looking at dobro intervals (1-3-5)with two extra strings. Once I made that mental leap, I was able to record some fun stuff.

My question: using the reso bar made it much easier for me than the bullet bar: I had much more control and confidence. Am I shooting myself in the foot by staying with the reso bar?[This message was edited by Bill McCloskey on 20 January 2005 at 11:49 AM.]

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 20 Jan 2005 11:59 am

Not necessarily (but I know many will disagree with me here...). Many of the Sacred Steelers use 'Stevens'-style bars for their 8-strings, for example.
But if the bullet bar George sent with the lap steel is anything like the one he sent with mine, you might want to try a smaller model. Mine was a huge pedal steel bar and it was too big and heavy for me after using the SP-2 for a long while.
If yours is the same then you could try a smaller one, like a 3/4"x3" or 3,25".
The advantage is better control over slants, especially reverse slants, and I have to admit - as silly as it may sound - it *looks* cooler to me.....

But it takes a while to get used to, and I still go back and forth between the bullet bar and the SP-2 myself. Whatever works......

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

[This message was edited by Steinar Gregertsen on 20 January 2005 at 12:01 PM.]

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 20 Jan 2005 3:20 pm

I would also say "whatever works for you"
I have various slide's , and for getting around faster the SP2 seem's to do the trick...It also seems to have a "whispy" type tone ( for lack of a better word) or a "stringy" type tone...The bullet bar's are very solid sounding and very definite sounding .. Faster material get's the SP2 as it's lighter and you can whip it around a lot easier ...Again, it's all up to what works for you ....Jim

Dwayne Martineau · Post by **Dwayne Martineau** » 20 Jan 2005 4:14 pm

Sounds like you're on exactly the right track.

I started on the Stevens bar, used the Shubb-Pierce SP-1, then a long bullet bar, then moved to the small Jerry Byrd bullet bar: ¾" diameter x 2¾" long.

It took me forever to learn how to hold the darn thing, but it made bar-slanting and tipping a whole lot easier.

Use whatever works for you, but I'd try playing around with a small bullet bar as well. They're cheap and fun.

Plus, you can get some hilarious reactions when people see a finger-shaped metal rod sitting on your kitchen table... scandalous!

Here's a similar thread: http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/006204.html

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 21 Jan 2005 1:51 am

Yeah wrong. Dobro bars are ok for Dobro or skating around playing the blues on a 6 string major tuning - and there can be greatness in that. But on C6 or any other 8 string non-pedal tuning w/chordal extensions where you can play deep in the changes,in time you'll need to master slanting the bar - forwards and backwards. Not real possible without a round bar. Sorry Dude. Get with a round bar.You'll be glad you did. -MJ-

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 21 Jan 2005 4:20 am

What Mike said.

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 21 Jan 2005 4:59 am

What Andy said

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 21 Jan 2005 6:32 am

So, while I basically agree with the roundbar argument, I have to ask,- doesn't dobro players slant? What about Stacy Philips? I find forward slants every bit as easy to execute with my SP-2 than with any of my roundbars, it's the reverse slants that's tougher to get.
I just don't like it when people are so categorical about it, I've said it before and I'll say it again,- "whatever works".

Oh, and another thing,- "skating around playing the blues on a 6 string major tuning"? There's alot more you can do with a major tuning than that, which involves MORE slants than when playing in any 6th tuning. When a player wants to get a little 'advanced' in a major tuning (like on a dobro or Weissenborn) he REALLY has to have his slanting technique nailed. So saying slanting doesn't work with a dobro bar is just plain wrong.

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

[This message was edited by Steinar Gregertsen on 21 January 2005 at 06:32 AM.][This message was edited by Steinar Gregertsen on 21 January 2005 at 06:39 AM.]

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 21 Jan 2005 11:21 am

Yeah it's the reverse slants that are a bitch with a dobro bar. I've seen guys do it but it's definately doing things the hard way.I have nothing against 6 string major tunings but it seems my favorite styles - and the most feasable to play - on these sort of tunings are done either with a lot of open strings,rolls and hammer-ons like on a dobro bluegrass G tuning or more modal blues played on and E or D tuning like David Lindly and Harry Manx.And neither style hardly ever involves slanting the bar.And trust me,you haven't lived till you've watched Harry Manx up close playing the most complex,hypnotic fingerstyle lap steel I've ever seen on D,A,D,F#,A,D w/a Stevens bar. Again - not a single slant.
A Stevens is the perfect bar for him.
However,on an 8 stringer,the assumption might be that the player would have some sort of 6th,9th,13th or diatonic tuning on there and might need to play all kinds of slants with the least amount of learning curve and that calls for a round bar.They're just easier to manipulate and that's my point. Learning to slant well with a dobro bar is just really expending energy overcoming an unnecessary handicap.I think any player who has spent a lot of time with both kinds of bars would say the same thing. -MJ-

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 21 Jan 2005 11:42 am

They're just easier to manipulate and that's my point.

I absoultely agree, it was what I read as a 'fundamentalist' nature of you post (and not enough strong coffee, hehe) that got me going.

As for slanting in major tunings, I still mean that I need good slant control even more on my major tuned 6-string than on my 8-string (usually tuned to A6 or E13). Even the simplest minor triad requires a good slanting technique in a major tuning. Of course, more advanced jazz harmonies are out of the question on a major tuned steel - at least as triads - so there you'll definitely need an extended tuning..

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 21 Jan 2005 1:54 pm

Yeah I finally gave up trying to do a reverse slant w/a dobro bar and having it flop over on it's side in the process.I have seen Dave Borisoff from Hipshot do it masterfully though.Plus,like you said there's just not enough going on harmonically on a major triad based tuning to justify attempting,in vain mostly,to conjure up combinations that are just not there - or even if they are there in theory,you can't get at them very easy with ANY kind of bar. That's why I added an E and a C at the bottom of the normal 6 string G,B,D,G,B,D dobro tuning on one neck of my Stringmaster. It perks that tuning right up.
-MJ-

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 21 Jan 2005 2:40 pm

Stacy Phillips gets a myriad of enhanced voicings using slants & chokes simultaniously on the G tuning.

But for us mere mortals, Michael, I agree.

I would love to have a recess drilled or milled on the back of my Sheerhorn bar

Bill Blacklock · Post by **Bill Blacklock** » 22 Jan 2005 9:41 am

I use a new style Sheerhorn (tapered at both ends) and a round bar. I like the extra weight of the round bar and find it gives a nicer tone, more suited to lazy tunes with lots of reverse slants. The Sheerhorn is great for faster stuff but difficult to use on reverse slants because of the taper on the back. I think the big thing with me is, the type of bar I use is a big influence on my style of playing?

I would agree with Steiner, I work the bar a lot more in a major tuning to pickup minors and 6th and so on.

I have a big tin can full of bars, I’m still looking for the right one.

Bill

Chris Walke · Post by **Chris Walke** » 22 Jan 2005 11:52 am

Really, try all the bars that you want. Everybody finds what works best for them by experimenting.

I use the Shubb Pearse SP-2 on 8-string C6 and it works great for me. I had quite a bit of trouble executing slants (forward and reverse) UNTIL I got the SP-2. The SP-2 has a bullet nose, a fairly wide diameter and is concave at the back, which helps my thumb find its way into position for reverse slants.

A Stevens-style dobro bar, however, with the straight ends, was not very good for slanting, in my experience. I've tried several sizes of bullet bars, the Stevens, the SP-1 and the SP-2, and the SP-2 works best for me. As you've read, it doesn't work for everyone.

Experiment. [This message was edited by Chris Walke on 22 January 2005 at 12:02 PM.]