Rare Knutsen Guitar at Bernunzio

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 21 May 2004 5:07 am

FYI ....

BERNUNZIO VINTAGE INSTRUMENTS

Item 037365: C. Knutsen Convertible
ca. 1909 an extremely rare model in the style of the Hawaiian guitar but with detachable neck: Koa wood back and sides, spruce top ; patent applied for labe, was $4550... PRICE REDUCED now only EX HSC $2850.00
http://www.bernunzio.com/cgi-bin/bernunzio/showimg2000?img=037365

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 21 May 2004 5:47 am

Sigh........... a Knutsen Convertible........... double sigh.......

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Russ Young · Post by **Russ Young** » 21 May 2004 6:23 am

This is one of only nine such "convertibles" that Gregg Miner has catalogued.

I'm not sure a "detachable" neck is what Chris Knutsen had in mind when he built these, but you have to admit it would make it a lot easier to qualify your guitar as carry-on luggage ...

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 21 May 2004 8:27 am

you have to admit it would make it a lot easier to qualify your guitar as carry-on luggage ...

...and a lot easier to ship to Norway...

Steinar
(no, I won't buy it... I have to get a Knutsen back to Norway... I really can't afford this one now.... my preciousssss...)

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www.gregertsen.com

Dwight Mark · Post by **Dwight Mark** » 21 May 2004 9:46 pm

Andy, do you know how these sound in comparison to a Weissenborn and Kona? Do they have the mojo?
Russ, how does your new one sound?

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 22 May 2004 3:04 am

I've played several Weissenbrons, a Kona, a Hilo, a Bear Creek and several other brands but I've never seen or heard a Knutsen. There's something about them that puts me off. They seem "old & undesirable" to me in a way that Konas, Hilos, and Weissenborns never have. I Can't really say why.

Russ Young · Post by **Russ Young** » 22 May 2004 5:06 am

My "new" Knutsen sounds pretty darn good, even with the non-original tailpiece and some crappy old strings! (I have played both a Weissenborn and a Kona, but it's been long enough that it's hard to make a meaningful comparison. I think the Knutsen would compare favorably, although I'd say it has a little less bass than the Weissenborn.)

It's in "rehab" right now -- it has a couple of minor cracks that need fixing and the tailpiece is coming off, to be replaced by a new pin bridge. (The luthier, who has restored several Knutsens, "scoped" the guitar and couldn't find any structural reasons why the original bridge had been replaced. The braces are also in good shape.) We're betting it will sound even better returned to its original design/configuration.

I can see where Andy is coming from. Knutsen's guitars have a certain "homemade" quality to them. Unlike Weissenborns, Konas, Lyrics, Mai Kais and Hilos, they weren't manufactured -- they were handcrafted, with no two Knutsens appearing to be alike. (Check out Gregg Miner's web site and you'll see there is no such thing as a Knutsen "Style 2!") In my case, that's part of the appeal. I bought mine as much for its historic value as its tone ... but I think I got a lot of both for my money. Once the repairs are done, I'll have ~$1500 invested.[This message was edited by Russ Young on 22 May 2004 at 10:24 AM.]

John Bushouse · Post by **John Bushouse** » 22 May 2004 7:44 am

The Knutsen I briefly owned (shown here) needed quite a lot of work to get it up to snuff (detached braces, top cracks). When I bought it, the strings (a set of nickel wounds) had been on it for some time, and it was tuned to open A. I tuned it down to G and played it during the week I held on to it before sending it down to Gregg. As I said, it needed a lot of work to be fully playable, but it did have a nice funky tone all its own.

I believe if I had kept it in the house for even a few days more, I would have kept it for good (over the objections of Gregg and my wife).

Travis Bernhardt · Post by **Travis Bernhardt** » 22 May 2004 11:16 am

I've played a certain Knutsen a few times now and it sounds pretty good, but not as good as a good Weissenborn or Kona. I've only played the one, though, and I know how variable the tone can be on these old guitars.

-Travis

Russ Young · Post by **Russ Young** » 23 May 2004 9:43 am

If you think Knutsen's designs are one-of-a-kind, check out this guitar ...

Ben Elder · Post by **Ben Elder** » 24 May 2004 7:51 pm

I love Chris Knutsen, no matter how iffily his creations hold together 80 and 90 years later. And his Hawaiians (I'll leave matters of harp guitars to those who either care or own one) sound second only to Weissenborn (which is to include 99.9% of Konas) among the old things. And--Knutsens have a completely different character--low rumbly and warm, less treble and shimmer than Weissenborns but a sound nearly as compelling. Not that any two Knutsens are as similar as any two Weissenborns. (Not that there are any two Knustens visually similar. If you told me that "Knutsen" means "one-off" in Norwegian, I'd believe you.)

My first "Weissenborn" (so it was advertised--although I instantly knew it wasn't--but determining actual its identity took nearly another year and the ancient wisdom of Jon Lundberg) was a Knutsen--and not a crack on it. Rarely has that feature been encountered on any other Knutsens I've met since. Two sub-bass, four treble and six principal strings: this >is< a Hawaiian, mind you--but no cracks. A refinish--but no cracks. It's somewhere on Gregg Miner's Knutsen Pages under the Harp Hawaiians. I've enjoyed it enough to get three others (including an extended body-arm Hawaiian that John and Julie Berununzio's customers showed so damnably little regard for that they discounted it last summer.)

As far as new stuff, I've yet to hear a substitute for the three-generation head start Hermann, Chris, et al. enjoy. Knutsens' too-light construction is also their sonic glory. After Weissenborn/Kona and Knutsen, my next favorite old wooden steel (?) is the plainest of the plain Mastertone that Gibson sneaked onto the market ca. 1939-42. Notice I haven't mentioned Hilo? It's a long and vitriolic diatribe, but the favorites list gets a lot longer before Hilos show up with my vote. Unless you find one of those overregarded pieces of Schmidt for well down into the three figures (and can't find anything else), keep searching for a Weissenborn or Knutsen. Or a Mastertone or a Martin 2-17H or a Brink or a Greenfield or an Oahu or a Kamaka or a Summers or or an Epiphone Madrid or or or or....

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'69 alZBatross D-10/Weisskonutsens/Reasonhaters/
Perennial Sisyphean Beginner
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Smilies Always Disabled For Your Protection

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 25 May 2004 2:52 pm

I have an old Knutsen harp taropatch (eight strings) that was given to me many years ago. Are these very common?

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Lee, from South Texas
Down On The Rio Grande

Russ Young · Post by **Russ Young** » 25 May 2004 3:15 pm

Lee, I don't think that there is any such thing as a "common" Knutsen!

However, it sounds like you've got something that is pretty uncommon: http://home.earthlink.net/~chrisknutsen4/ukes.htm#2 [This message was edited by Russ Young on 25 May 2004 at 04:22 PM.]

John Bushouse · Post by **John Bushouse** » 25 May 2004 6:54 pm

D'oh! Sale price is gone. Back up to $4550...

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 26 May 2004 2:32 pm

Wow, Russ! Only two other Knutsen Harp Taro Patches known to exist? Mine's been in storage for quite a while and is pretty dirty. I'll have to run it through the dishwasher this evening and see how it cleans up.

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Lee, from South Texas
Down On The Rio Grande

Russ Young · Post by **Russ Young** » 26 May 2004 3:04 pm

Lee -- if the dishwasher doesn't do the trick, try an automatic car wash.

If you've got a digital camera, Gregg Miner would be delighted if you would send him pictures and specs. (Even if you don't, I know he would like to hear from you.)

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 26 May 2004 4:05 pm

I'll have to run it through the dishwasher this evening and see how it cleans up.

Careful, while more modern guitars will take dishwashing at 60C quite well, Knutsens must never be subjected to temperatures over 40C.
And only air-dry!

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Russ Young · Post by **Russ Young** » 26 May 2004 4:29 pm

Many thanks, Steinar -- the washing label inside my Knutsen is so faded that I couldn't read the instructions.

You learn so much on this forum ...

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 2 Jan 2005 5:05 am

Just noticed it's now on sale ....
http://bernunzio.com/cgi-bin/bernunzio/f2k.pl?price_reduced=yes

037365 C. Knutsen Convertible ca. 1909 PRICE REDUCED an extremely rare model in the style of the Hawaiian guitar but with detachable neck: Koa wood back and sides, spruce top ; patent applied for label, ....was $4550, now on sale for only EX HSC $2950 BUY ME

Ian McLatchie · Post by **Ian McLatchie** » 2 Jan 2005 2:38 pm

' . . . I've never seen or heard a Knutsen. There's something about them that puts me off. They seem "old & undesirable" to me in a way that Konas, Hilos, and Weissenborns never have. I can't really say why.'

Oh Andy, you poor benighted soul! Compared to most instruments ofd the period, Knutsens do indeed seem "old" (read: unsophisticated, lacking design integrity, crudely made) - but undesirable? No way! I have a 1920s extended-arm Knutsen Hawaiian, and in every sense it's one of the most desirable of the fifty or so steel guitars I've owned. Most obviously, it, like every other Knutsen instrument, is truly unique (of all the guitars documented on Gregg Miner’s site it most closely resembles this one: http://www.harpguitars.net/knutsen_images/hhw8.jpg, but with some significant differences, as well). Undeniably, most Knutsen instruments are a hodge-podge of ornamentations all thrown together without any apparent overriding sense of design, but they’re also remarkably beautiful in their own bizarre way. The Knutsen is the only instrument my wife doesn’t want me to sell, because she so loves the look of it.

This is no mere wall hanger, though, but a gorgeous sounding instrument. Ben's description sums it up pretty well: "rumbly and warm, less treble and shimmer than Weissenborns but a sound nearly as compelling," although given how much greater the bass response is than any Weissenborn I've played, I'd be inclined to say the sound is every bit as compelling. The tone is actually pretty similar to a friend’s Kona, but in a pinch I’d take the Knutsen, if only for its unbelieveable sustain, the product, as Ben says, of too-light construction (WAY too light: two tiny straight braces south of the bridge, a cedar peghead, mahogany bridge - yipes!).

By the way, Ben, sometime you must tell us how you really feel about Hilos!

Ben Elder · Post by **Ben Elder** » 2 Jan 2005 3:48 pm

Huck Filos.

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 2 Jan 2005 4:58 pm

Benighted? Maybe, but "beauty is skin deep; ugly goes clear to the bone." Redd Foxx.

Ian McLatchie · Post by **Ian McLatchie** » 2 Jan 2005 7:08 pm

Nice as the Knutsen Convertible is, the real prize steel at Bernunzio's at the moment has to be the Style 1 squareneck. Whoo - gotta put the cheaters on for that one! http://www.bernunzio.com/cgi-bin/bernunzio/showimg2000?img=048548

I love that Redd Foxx line, Andy. I know a few others, but they're a little too raw for
this venue.