C6th

Bill Moran · Post by **Bill Moran** » 17 Sep 2006 5:51 pm

Tell the truth !!
How many D10 steel owners have there C6th
neck in tune ?
I know several pickers in SW Virginia that own great D10 guitars. Emmons, Mullen, Sho Bud, GFI and others. I am willing to bet only one out of ten even bother to tune there C6th neck. Is this a trend ? Do you guys and gals think C6th is on it's way out ?
I wish I could play C6th better than I do but at least, I do enjoy what I do play on it.
Whats going on. Am I just old school?

Just a thought!!!
Bill

Andy Sandoval · Post by **Andy Sandoval** » 17 Sep 2006 5:58 pm

I started on lap steel with C6 so when I began to learn pedal steel E9 on my D-10 I played with the C6 neck a lot more so I keep it tuned for sure.[This message was edited by Andy Sandoval on 17 September 2006 at 06:58 PM.]

Ron Sodos · Post by **Ron Sodos** » 17 Sep 2006 6:09 pm

I see alot of guys who don't even connect the rods and the pedals just sit there. I have spent more time practicing C6th this last years than E9th. I too neglected it for many years. Now I love it more than ever. [This message was edited by Ron Sodos on 17 September 2006 at 07:09 PM.]

Mark Edwards · Post by **Mark Edwards** » 17 Sep 2006 6:15 pm

I was afforded the chance to upgrade from my Zane Beck starter Guitar to a beautiful GFI D-10 Ultra keyless steel. The guy that sold it to me said this will be the only guitar you will ever need (unless you want a different color), meaning that not only will I have an E9th but the C6th as well for down the road after I get the E9th down.

I have been learning the E9th since I started, and I want to learn to play well. I have yet to touch my C6th neck until I get the E9th down well enough to play, once that occurs I will then learn the C6th.

I guess I'm one of the 9 that has yet to tune my C6th neck. This beautiful machine we call the steel guitar is and has been somewhat intimidating to me since I started playing, and the more I play the less intimidating it becomes. I was once asked; how do you eat an elephant, one bite at a time. Therefore one neck at a time for now. Boy I love the steel guitar and what it does for music.

I look forward to learning my C6th sometime in the near future. Then I will be in the 1 percentile.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 17 Sep 2006 6:30 pm

I most definately do. Although I am not real good on C6th, I do play it maybe 25% of the time on a gig.

john lemay · Post by **john lemay** » 17 Sep 2006 7:18 pm

I am learning them both at the same time. I learn a song on one neck then learn it on the other. C6th is what brought me back to steelin'. I love that sound!

------------------
Carter D-10, 8+5

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 17 Sep 2006 7:37 pm

Bill-I love C6, only I tune it 2 whole tones higher to E6. Any 6th tuning is good to know, A6,B6,Bb6,C6, E6,D6.
In fact I would say that I only played E9 professianally for a few years of my long career .
I do like E9 and it is a beautiful tuning and has it's own special sound. I would advise a player to try a few country tunes on the C6 neck, Like "Cold Cold Heart" or maybe some Texas Western Swing tunes. Then when you get them all worked out, slip them in between some of the E9 songs. ...al

------------------
My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 17 September 2006 at 08:37 PM.]

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 17 Sep 2006 8:37 pm

Me absolutely.
I won't go out if the back neck is acting up.

George Redmon · Post by **George Redmon** » 17 Sep 2006 9:53 pm

I only play C6th to speak of. I guess i was just backwards. I started on e9th, heard chaulker, then the e9th was history for me. Of course i don't like commercial top 40 country. So i don't have a lot of use for the e9th neck. But it's sad that so many players are intimidated by the C6th. I just love it. Most universial players i have talked with, reece andersen included. Don't think of it as two seperate tunings. But an extention of one tuning into the other. I think if more fellas would look at it that way on D10's, it would come to them much easier. Now don't get me wrong, i just love love what some of the guys are dojng on the E9th. Good luck on your learning experiences.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 17 Sep 2006 11:23 pm

i believe my C6 neck is in tune
i use it & prefer it over E9

Frederic Mabrut · Post by **Frederic Mabrut** » 17 Sep 2006 11:40 pm

Since C6 represents 80% of my playing during gigs, I MUST have C6 in tune.

And,if you break the 3rd string on the E9, while playing, it's comfortable to have a spare neck ready....just in case!

Tracy Sheehan · Post by **Tracy Sheehan** » 18 Sep 2006 1:28 am

Like many of the OF's i started on C 6th then learned the 9th when when swing died out.I bought a beautiful new GFI Ultra SD 10 almost 5 months ago.Wish now i had bought a D10.My first love is the C6th.I have thought about takng it over to Gene Fields and having 2 more pedals added and changing it over to a C 6th but i realize one has to have the 9th if they are going to play out and i am getting too much money tied up in this NOW hobby.LOL
Every one to thier own thing,but this GFI and the little NV 112 will get the Chalker tone with out getting a muddy sound.Amazing.
I bought a used D-10 some time back and it was a great brand but i coulden't reach the knee levers.Must have been special made for some one and like a dummy i didn't try it out before buying it.MY fault entirly.
My first mistake was selling my trouble free MSA D-10 i played on and off the road for over 35 years.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 18 Sep 2006 1:42 am

I use C6th quite a bit. Obviously most of the "commercial country" is done on the E9th but most instrumentals I do are on C6th.

Like many others, I too started out on lap steel.

Ben Lawson · Post by **Ben Lawson** » 18 Sep 2006 2:24 am

I tune it but it doesn't help my playing.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 18 Sep 2006 2:25 am

Like a few others here, I play only C6th (well, Bb6th lately). It depends entirely on your musical goals, and how much time you have to devote to them. If you want to play commercial country, you have to play E9th. There are some people like Mike Perlowin and Doug Livingstone who play an amazing variety of music on an extended E9th tuning, however for what I want to do I decided C6th was the way to go. Every now and then I wish I had a E9th neck, but to improve the quality of the noises I make I need 36 hours in a day more than I need more equipment, I'm afraid.

Ernie Pollock · Post by **Ernie Pollock** » 18 Sep 2006 4:07 am

I have played C6th since my very first Baldwin Crossover model ShoBud back in the 70's, I discovered the notes for steel guitar rag, and I have been at it ever since one either C6th or B6 Universal, although I prefer the 10 string C6th tuning over the B6th. I can play most tunes one either neck, its just a 'gotta have' for me, C6th that is!!
shobud

Ernie

------------------

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 18 Sep 2006 4:38 am

I use the B6 tuning, on my U-12 guitar, a lot. I use it for backing a singer on some of the older ballads and on swing tunes.
It adds a great sound to "Kansas City". Try it. ........... JD.

------------------
www.home.earthlink.net/~johnd37

steve takacs · Post by **steve takacs** » 18 Sep 2006 5:11 am

Thanks to courses by Herby Wallace, and then Buddy Emmons, I've quite enjoyed playing the C6th for about a decade, mostly in tune! Don't play it a lot in our band because of the type of music we play, but love to give it a ride at home. Also learned a lot from a guy who generously posted for years on the Pedal Steel Guitar Association newsletter, Tom Brown. steve t.

JERRY THURMOND · Post by **JERRY THURMOND** » 18 Sep 2006 5:35 am

I use the C6th a lot, many of my jobs I get is because of the C6th. I heard Paul Franklin say that he still uses C6th on a lot of his new recordings. Jerry

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 18 Sep 2006 6:38 am

Well, naturally on my S12U, if E9 is in tune, so is B6. The B6 mode greatly expands what's available on E9. Mostly I play as if in E9 with B6 possibilities. But some songs I play entirely in B6 mode. The breakthrough for me on B6 was to forget about the pedals and play it like a lap steel. It's not like E9, where you keep your foot anchored to the pedals and are constantly using them. You can play tons of stuff on a 6th tuning without any pedals or levers. Pedal 6 on C6 (on a lever on a uni), which gives the IV9 chord can be used similar to the E9 A and B pedals; but the pedals and levers aren't as integral to the 6th neck sound as pedal rocking and mashing are for the E9 sound. I think if more E9ers realized that, they would be less intimidated by the 6th neck. It's much more accessible with a simple no-pedals approach than E9. More and more I use both modes for country, blues, jazz and rockabilly.

------------------
Student of the Steel: Zum uni, Fender tube amps, squareneck and roundneck resos, tenor sax, keyboards

Robbie Daniels · Post by **Robbie Daniels** » 18 Sep 2006 7:16 am

My C6 is always in tune. I have been playing C6 for close to 60 years and E9 for about 40 years. I learned to play as a youngster, Hawaiian music, utilizing the C6 tuning and when I went to pedal steels I ordered a Fender 400 with six pedals and played country from about 1959 to 1968 with a one neck Fender 400 tuned to C6. Danny Shields sat in on it at a jam session at the Red Barn in San Jose and was surprised at what was available on the C6 with the setup I had, but those days the pedal steel was very experimental. I bought my first real pedal steel double neck MSA 12 string in about 1968 from Al Marcus who was living I think in Santa Rosa, CA. I never really got into playing much on E9 until around 1971, so my experience with C6 greatly outways E9, but both tunings have there use and merits.

------------------
Carter D12, MSA D12, MSA S12, 1956 Rickenbacker D8, Evans FET 500LV, Evans SE200

Duane Reese · Post by **Duane Reese** » 18 Sep 2006 8:33 am

I tune and play my C6, but is it going out of favor? Well, maybe, but for me it's like this: I can do all the C6 basics on the E9, and I probably would just go with a single E9 guitar except for the fact that even if I can find every swing chord I want to use on E9, although I can get by, I find that you just can't slide in and out of the different chords with the grace and fluidity that you can with the C6; swinging on E9 means you have to change grips, move around several frets and pounce on chords really fast, and that almost takes the 'steel' out of steel guitar - might as well play a keyboard!

Playing C6 stuff on E9 can be done, but it's like eating a vegitarian burger: you can survive, but you aren't really living...

For this reason, my C6 is here to stay.

Billy Wilson · Post by **Billy Wilson** » 18 Sep 2006 9:49 am

I like the way you said it Duane! I guess I'm somewhat the opposite of most of you guys. I am so seduced by the rich sound of the C6th tuning I find it hard to practice on my E9th neck even though 80% of my gigs beg for the E9th sound. OK, I'm gonna get out my Wynn Stewart CD and cop some Ralph.

Glenn Suchan · Post by **Glenn Suchan** » 18 Sep 2006 10:32 am

Billy, like you, I have diffuculty "pulling" myself away from the C6th neck in order to do my, much needed, practicing on the E9th neck.

I started out playing/learning the E9th tuning in the mid '70's. And for the most part, it's the tuning I've played on better than 90% of the songs at gigs I've done. That holds true for the years that I played a "uni" guitar, too.

Three years ago I bought my first standard D10 guitar and since that time, I'm having a ball playing the C6th tuning. For some reason, to me, it's more fun playing C6th on a separate neck than B6th on a single "uni" neck. (And I don't subscribe to the notion that the B6th "uni" has any short-comings when compared to the standard C6th.)

Anyway, here's a typical scenario for my practice sessions: First, I slide the switch to the C6th neck and play scales and practice picking excersizes. Then I'll run through my favorite songs. After a bit of self-gratification, I'll start working on a new song or I'll challenge myself to find different ways to play a song I already know. Many times, I'll just analyze how chord structures work and see how they "fit" on the C6th neck. Before I know it, I've spent quite a bit of time C6'n and realize, "HEY! I've got that gig comin' up!" Or, most of the time it's, "My E9th playin' sounds like crap. I need to work on it". Then I switch to the E9th neck.

Keep on pickin'!
Glenn[This message was edited by Glenn Suchan on 18 September 2006 at 11:44 AM.]

Roger Edgington · Post by **Roger Edgington** » 18 Sep 2006 10:35 am

I think people worry way too much about which tuning to use or not use. I have been playing both over 40 years and would not want to give up either one. Sure, I can play most songs on either neck, but some things just lay better and sound better on one or the other. Some songs I use both. Don't be intimidated by C 6th. It's easier than E 9th in a lot of ways. In this part of the country most steelers have and use C 6th. I do about 50% of the time, maybe more.

You E 9th only guys are playing C 6th now and don't realize it. If you lower the Es you're there, or push A+B pedals and play strings 4,5,6,7,8,10.