Jerry Garcia & Steel guitar

Mike Goldring · Post by **Mike Goldring** » 11 Jul 2006 5:34 pm

Jerry Garcia did play steel guitar, he plays the steel on some of the early Crosby Still Nash and Young songs, Helpless I know is one, maybe some others.

Mike Goldring · Post by **Mike Goldring** » 11 Jul 2006 5:35 pm

this was supposed to be in the thread on Jerry Garcia, don't know what happened, bad trip man!

Richard Sevigny · Post by **Richard Sevigny** » 11 Jul 2006 5:48 pm

Say, isn't this 'sposed ta be the humour section?

...what a long strange trip indeed!

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 12 Jul 2006 8:02 pm

We have had many threads on Jerry Garcia's steel playing. You might want to do a Forum Search sometime when you have a free weekend.

Donna Dodd · Post by **Donna Dodd** » 13 Jul 2006 12:52 am

Moving to steel players . . .

Colby Tipton · Post by **Colby Tipton** » 13 Jul 2006 2:25 am

Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young, "Teach Your Children".

Dan Beller-McKenna · Post by **Dan Beller-McKenna** » 13 Jul 2006 2:56 am

Jim,

didn't you mean a free week?

Dan

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Dan Beller-McKenna
Big Red
Durham, NH

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 13 Jul 2006 5:48 am

Moved to the Jerry Garcia section.....

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 13 Jul 2006 6:27 am

ROBERT RAN... oh never mind.

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Warning: I have a telecaster and I'm not afraid to use it.
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My web site

[This message was edited by Mike Perlowin on 13 July 2006 at 02:16 PM.]

Mark Lind-Hanson · Post by **Mark Lind-Hanson** » 13 Jul 2006 7:44 am

No, no, no, it isn't Jerry Garcia on Helpless. It's Neil Young playing a regular 6 string & using the volume knob.

Ron Sodos · Post by **Ron Sodos** » 13 Jul 2006 10:55 am

I saw an interview with Jerry on TV years ago where he said he was giving up on steel because it was too hard and required too much of a committment that he was not ready to make. [This message was edited by Ron Sodos on 13 July 2006 at 11:55 AM.]

Dan Beller-McKenna · Post by **Dan Beller-McKenna** » 13 Jul 2006 12:07 pm

Dang!

Thats ANOTHER way in which Jerry Garcia was smarter than I am!!

Dan

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 13 Jul 2006 12:08 pm

I believe at another time he said that he was giving it up because "it would take a whole other lifetime to master."

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Mark

Ken Byng · Post by **Ken Byng** » 13 Jul 2006 1:06 pm

Moved to the Deja Vu section.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 13 Jul 2006 1:16 pm

Here we go again... what a long, strange trip it's been!

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My Site | My SteelTab

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 14 Jul 2006 7:45 am

Ive heard he's not a bad six string player either.

Hey at least its not a flame fest thus far. Ive learned alot about Jerry since coming to this site. I have alot more respect for him and his music than I did when I first came here. I still dont care for the dead much , but to each their own and I can respect Jerry's contributions and skill as a musician.

Cliff Kane · Post by **Cliff Kane** » 14 Jul 2006 9:26 am

I don't listen to him too much any more, and when I do listen to the first NRPS record (for example) his playing certainly doesn't blow me away, but I have respect for Jerry. I think Jerry had a lot of integrity as a musician, and he had a lot of musical interests that he pursued, and because of his fame he got to make a lot of records. I think he was probably conscious of helping out unknown bands that he liked by playing with them: how popular would The New Riders of the Purple Sage and Old and in the Way have been if Garcia had not been in those bands? Even if his playing is at a lower technical level than the really good players, the ideas and fun come across pretty well. Some of his playing sounds great to me, like the playing on "Workingman's Dead", and "The Wheel". People put down his steel playing, and people put down his six string playing, and I'm sure there are people who put down his banjo playing, and it's ususally because of his lack of technique, playing out of tuune, bad intonation, etc. Sometimes it seems like Jerry's a bit of a whipping boy for other steel players. What ever...I think that some folks have a certain asthectic, and they are not listening the way that other people listen. I'm not trying to compare the "okay" steel playing of Jerry Garcia with the genius of John Coltrane or Miles Davis, but a lot of critics bashed Coltrane and wrote him of as a hack because of his "terrible intonation" and his tendency to play sharp, and Miles used to fight with Gil Evans because Evans did not want takes with bad notes, but Miles felt that some bad notes were really secondary to the feel and statement of a musical take. Again, I know that "Teach Your Children" is no "Sketches of Spain", but I think dismissing Jerry because of technical or formal flaws doesn't do the man justice. I believe that for Jerry it was really about the music -- at least I think that is true of the projects he did outside of The Dead -- and he had a lot of respect for the steel guitar, so much so that he walked away from it as he knew that he couldn't master it while also being a full-time working six string player. (I can relate: right now my steel is standing in the corner mocking me). When people put Garcia down, I wonder why the same sort of ridicule is not brought forth for players like Ron Wood, Niles Lofgren, and Dan Lanois; all of these payers are six-stringer who also picked-up the steel along the way, and are not ashamed to play it to arenas full of people. No disrespect for those people, but IMHO, Garcia is a better steel player. I also think that Jerry was an unspoken ambassador for the pedal steel, as a lot of people who were not listing to country music became aware of the pedal steel through Garcia's music.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 14 Jul 2006 11:10 am

Cliff, speaking personally, I have no problem with Garcia's steel playing. My problem is with those who rank him as the world's greatest steel player, ranking him above Buddy, Lloyd, Paul Franklin and all the other greats.

This subject came up in a guitar forum, and I mentioned this, and got responses along the line of "If this guy Lloyd Green is so great, how come I never heard of him and why didn't CSNY use him instead?"

I won't even get into the names I was called for daring to suggest that Buddy Emmons is better.

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Warning: I have a telecaster and I'm not afraid to use it.
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My web site

[This message was edited by Mike Perlowin on 14 July 2006 at 12:12 PM.]

Cliff Kane · Post by **Cliff Kane** » 14 Jul 2006 11:40 am

Yes, those guys, and scores of other players, are in a whole other league. I think Garcia had a lot of humble admiration for the great players, and he had no illusions about his limitaions. The arguments that he's better than those guys because he was used by CSNY is like like saying that Kenny G is a better sax player than Michael Brecker because he's played on the radio more often, or fast food is the best cuisine because it's the most consumed. [This message was edited by Cliff Kane on 14 July 2006 at 12:40 PM.][This message was edited by Cliff Kane on 14 July 2006 at 12:41 PM.]

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 14 Jul 2006 12:30 pm

Garcia was a true musician - lived and breathed music. Did great acoustic work and great eletric work. What other rock musican had an equally good career in acoustic, rock, and bluegrass. He even did a children's album. His work with Grisman was wonderful and he created a wonderful steel guitar lick. And a good artist. Was beloved. He generated the kind of loyal fan base that you don't see outside of country music.

He had demons. He eventually overcame them. he died. May he rest in peace. Few had his career and accomplishments.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 14 Jul 2006 12:46 pm

"My problem is with those who rank him as the world's greatest steel player"

I think this speaks more for how much his fans loved him than any thing else. If you had tried telling fans of Maria Callas or Frank Sinatra that they're heros couldn't sing anymore at the end of their careers, you would have been crucified.

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 14 Jul 2006 1:14 pm

Well said Bill Mc.

He gets a bum rap here too often just because he happened to enjoy the pedal steel guitar and knew a few licks on it and played it on his friends record that sold a zillion copies.

Was he a great steel player---the record sold a zillion copies.

Is he the greatest steel player----the record sold a zillion copies.

Should he be afforded the same respect that Emmons and Green and Franklin and the other players who played on hits that sold a zillion copies--the record he played on also sold a zillion copies.

He's dead. Let him rest in peace.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 14 Jul 2006 1:41 pm

To everything, churn, churn, churn...

Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 14 Jul 2006 4:20 pm

...still churnning...

After 30+ years of running away from the Dead, this year I've been focusing on them and particularly Jerry, whom I've enjoyed since the JGB finally came to the islands about a decade ago and gave us some great music.

What a stunning group the Dead were, at times. I've acquired shows that have them playing as well/enjoyable as anybody you can name. Of course, anyone that plays on the edge each time out is going to have ups and downs, but gawd, when it's happening...!

It seems tho, that his best steel playing was in the studio where he had the luxury of working out ideas to his satisfaction and getting takes he liked.
Counterpoint; I've been seeking out his live steel playing, and he did a lot with the NRPS. On the snapshot examples that are being offered weekly on www.wolfgangsvault.com he certainly was not a steeler that would have gotten the gig had he not been Jerry Garcia. Good ideas, but the execution is constantly flawed and actually hurts the music, which wasn't that good to start with. Then again, maybe he played to the level of the music.

That said, I'm a big JG/Dead fan now.

He also sed that always switching from steel to guitar and back messed with his hands too much.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 14 Jul 2006 6:58 pm

I listened to Workingmans dead 3 times
while driving to Malaysia this week.
I really like his steel on the studio version of
Dire Wolf (Don't Murder Me).
Not so much the live one, but he is singing there live too.

His guitar playing reminds me of
Clarence White, on Sweetheart of the Rodeo.
His steel playing only sounds like himself, to me...

He loved the steel,
let the nitwits believe what they want,
vis a vis being best in the world.
They likely haven't heard the better players.

He loved the steel,
and played what he could when he could.
And his playing made some good records better.
What more needs be said.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 20 July 2006 at 04:51 AM.]