Potential Pedal Tuning..Leavitt

Roy Thomson · Post by **Roy Thomson** » 14 Nov 2005 7:50 am

This tuning has been discussed many times
on No Pedalers. It's gaining more attention
and I am wondering what the posters here
may think of the potential of this tuning
for a pedal setup.
Here are some clips of my experimentations
all on a beat up 6 string Rickenbacker. http://members.cox.net/loveridehd3/FOOLINROUND.mp3 http://members.cox.net/loveridehd3/I'LLBELONESOME.mp3

This is Country Leavitt tugging strings no
pedals played on the lap.
Bill Hatcher a jazz musician has added two strings to the configuration and has a monster sound. If you have no already done so check out his recent threads in No Pedalers.
The basic set up is high to low:

D--C--Bb--G--E--C#

Bill has added Eb to the top and G# to the bottom ie:

Eb--D--C--Bb--G--E--C#--G#

Comments suggestions?

Roy[This message was edited by Roy Thomson on 14 November 2005 at 07:59 AM.]

Ron Castle · Post by **Ron Castle** » 14 Nov 2005 10:22 am

your 6 strings already exist on c6 w p8
(boowah) and A raise to Bb.
Why would it be necesary to tune that way?

Roy Thomson · Post by **Roy Thomson** » 14 Nov 2005 10:29 am

Sometimes a different starting point leads to new ends?

MUSICO · Post by **MUSICO** » 14 Nov 2005 1:03 pm

Thanks for that insight Ron.....I want to try Leavitt...now I dont need to retune anything. I´ll try it out on the PSG.

I did try it out a little and found it to be very frustrating. Not to be dabbled with. Needs instruction, tab or whatever but all the sound clips Ive heard fascinated me.

Jeremy Williams
Barcelona Spain

Ron Castle · Post by **Ron Castle** » 14 Nov 2005 1:22 pm

The Leavitt is a great tuning for non pedal.
Mike Ide has some terrific learning materials.
But I think the intent of this tunung is to minimize slants on non-pdl when playing tunes w extended/altered chords comonly found in jazz
& showtunes etc. With pdls you dont really
NEED slants except perhaps for effect or in very rare circumstances.

Roy Thomson · Post by **Roy Thomson** » 14 Nov 2005 1:55 pm

So if you put pedals on the Leavitt tuning,,
it won't work?

Ron Castle · Post by **Ron Castle** » 14 Nov 2005 2:22 pm

yes Roy it would absolutely work- but it would be kind of like tuning an e9 psg to an A6 chord (a+b pdls) and having pdls to take it back to E9 - it wouldnt get you much- unless you were more comfortable playing the open leavitt setup, that might be a good reason-
On the other hand it's not a bad idea that Bill had in his extended Leavit with the G# on bottom and Eb above- you could add a pdl to c6 to do that- would be interesting/ I had a pdl pulling the lower A to Ab and the upper A to Bb that I used quite a bit but didnt have enuff pdls/knees to keep it

Roy Thomson · Post by **Roy Thomson** » 14 Nov 2005 2:33 pm

Ron
The concept of E9th to A6th is non relevent
here as the leavitt changes need not be designed to revert the Leavitt tuning back to C6th. That can easily be done as you have
demonstrated but I am talking a NEW direction.
Have you tried the Leavitt setup with the tuning on strings 1,2,3,4, 5,6? or 2,3,4,5,6,7 etc. If not it just gets lost in the mix.
I appreciate your comments and thank you
for your time.

ebb · Post by **ebb** » 14 Nov 2005 4:59 pm

all of the leavitt stuff can be transformed to almost any tuning. the real lesson in his stuff is the sparse suggestion of 4 note jazz chords with usually no more than 3 notes, allowing the bass player to resolve it, and voice leading. the main way pedals could be used here is to minimize grip changes when playing through chord progressions. i still love the way he made a 6 string lap steel speak magic. genius (spelled correctly for r. davis whom i love)

Roy Thomson · Post by **Roy Thomson** » 14 Nov 2005 5:03 pm

The pedals/knee levers could allow the steel guitar to do the resolving for some nice chord melody playing.
Perhaps a more complete presentation,,I guess that's what I am trying to say?[This message was edited by Roy Thomson on 14 November 2005 at 06:36 PM.]

ebb · Post by **ebb** » 14 Nov 2005 8:01 pm

roy please send any arrangement you would like to see translated to a particular pedal tuning. since you don't have an email option i am posting here.

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 14 Nov 2005 10:23 pm

I'm planning on acquiring the Leavitt~Tuning on my new D-10 PSG from the basic C-Diatonic Tuning! True, it can be applied to various basic tunings, with some being more practical than others!

------------------
“Big John” Bechtel
’04 SD–10 Black Derby w/3 & 5 & Pad
’65 Re-Issue Fender Twin–Reverb Custom™ 15” Eminence
web site

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 14 Nov 2005 10:30 pm

I’ve been playing steel~guitar since 1948, but; my basic~background in music is apparently very different from both Roy Thompson and Bill Hatcher! I fear that I’m far out of my league in trying to add anything intelligent to this subject, so; I should respectfully back off a bit! I certainly respect the talents of both parties!

------------------
“Big John” Bechtel
’04 SD–10 Black Derby w/3 & 5 & Pad
’65 Re-Issue Fender Twin–Reverb Custom™ 15” Eminence
web site

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 14 Nov 2005 11:42 pm

Ok how's about sugestions for a 14 string Leavit tuning...
I don't have my steel with me, so I can't try things at the moment.

Bill H. nice extrapolation.

I've used Leavit off and on for a few years on lapsteel or dobro,
it is a very cool tuning, and Mikes album
A Different Slant really shows it to good advantage
[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 15 November 2005 at 09:53 AM.]

Roy Thomson · Post by **Roy Thomson** » 15 Nov 2005 1:32 am

I just want to clarify why I started this thread.
Before expanding on the string number lets assume we have a little six string lap steel and contemplating putting legs thereon and adding pedals knee levers.
It is tuned Leavitt high to low as follows:
D
C
Bb
G
E
C#
I am looking for some suggested changes.
Ron has pointed out that by raising first string to E dropping Bb to A and the sixth string to C afforts the C6th tuning. An important and great change.
I have in my two clips in the original post to this thread played some country sounds by pulling strings 1 and 2 a full and half tone
respectively. So thats another possibility for a pedal/lever change(s).
What others might be benificial to this tuning and for what reason? I am not thinking any one style. The door is open ...Jazz, Country, Pop, Hawaiian etc
I would like to keep things focused just on the six strings at this point.
[This message was edited by Roy Thomson on 15 November 2005 at 01:36 AM.]

Ron Castle · Post by **Ron Castle** » 15 Nov 2005 5:23 am

OK Roy,
What would be the new direction, what kind
of changes would you suggest? I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I love the clips you've posted, and really like the 6str leavitt - just
a bit confused as to what you would do for changes.
BTW- i keep the high D in line so my top psg
strings are already c-d-e[This message was edited by Ron Castle on 15 November 2005 at 05:24 AM.]

Roy Thomson · Post by **Roy Thomson** » 15 Nov 2005 5:57 am

Like I said the door is open
ie could be any direction.

Ron Castle · Post by **Ron Castle** » 15 Nov 2005 7:26 am

OK I'll bite
------kl------p1------- p2
1 D
2 C
3 Bb--B
4 G------------F#
5 E
6 C#-------------------C
kl nice half-dim 7th
also full Maj7th/9th starting on 5
p2 complete strumable 7/Maj7(kl)- 9th
p1 F#AUG7 5-4-3-1
p1+p2 C7b5
p1+p2+kl great 13th ala Herbie Hancock
probably lots more [This message was edited by Ron Castle on 15 November 2005 at 07:27 AM.][This message was edited by Ron Castle on 15 November 2005 at 07:28 AM.][This message was edited by Ron Castle on 15 November 2005 at 07:30 AM.]

Roy Thomson · Post by **Roy Thomson** » 15 Nov 2005 8:20 am

Here's a fancy one C Ninth Augmented Fifth
(D-Bb-G#-E-C) Strings one thru five
Simply raise the fourth string to G# by
knee lever or by a string pull at fret 12.

Ron Castle · Post by **Ron Castle** » 15 Nov 2005 1:29 pm

------kl------p1------- p2 ---kl2
1 D
2 C
3 Bb--B
4 G------------F#-------------g#
5 E
6 C#-------------------C[This message was edited by Ron Castle on 15 November 2005 at 01:43 PM.]

Roy Thomson · Post by **Roy Thomson** » 15 Nov 2005 4:04 pm

Ron,
We can also add the Bud Isaacs sound to
the mix raising the G to A and the E to F.
This moves the C chord on strings 2,4,5 to
the lV or F chord.
I also want the first string going up a 1/2
tone and a full tone on seperate knee levers.
Can you fit that in your chart?

ebb · Post by **ebb** » 15 Nov 2005 4:26 pm

your strummable c9(5+) on e9
6th fret
strings
6
7
8
9
10 (lower with x lever ie B->Bb)

Ron Castle · Post by **Ron Castle** » 16 Nov 2005 4:23 am

Ebb, not quite strumable, in that the sequence
leaves 3 maj 2nds in a row, rather than stacked thirds...kind of muddy
But it is further illustration of my opinion that Leavitt w pdls does not get you any chords/voicings different than what a C6 or universal, and perhaps e9 with some extra changes/pdls, can do.

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 19 Nov 2005 7:47 pm

Well, for what it might be worth, this ‘other~league’ guy is back! After you Raise #1 (D) to (E) and Lower #3 (Bb) to (A)m you can Lower #4 from (G) to (F#) and you have the combination-tuning A6/D9:
C#–E–[F#]–[A]–C–[E] This ‘tuning’ also corresponds to the C6 PSG~Setup, if you use (2)-Feet! This still helps to prove that many similar tunings can be arrived at with different Basic~Tunings. Any one of the tunings can become your Basic~Tuning with the same results, so; it seems to be a matter of preference for the ‘Basic’! If you want pedals on the Leavitt~Tuning, I say go for it! I'm going to make it work on my C-Diatonic, w/o a doubt!

------------------
“Big John” Bechtel
Soon to be: New Burgundy D–10 Derby (w/6 &

’65 Re-Issue Fender Twin–Reverb Custom™ 15” Eminence
web site