Are Musicians Well Known? Check out this surve

Eddie Malray · Post by **Eddie Malray** » 16 May 2003 5:33 pm

Hi Guys and Gals: I decided to do a little survey to see if Country Music fan knew much about the great musicians in the music business. I work for The Goodyear Tire and Rubber Co. in Union City, Tn. There are about 3000 people working there. I am a Maintainence Mechanic, so I get to talk to a lot of people during the day. Heres what I did. I made a list of what I thought to be some of the best and well known singers and a list of what I felt are some of the best musicians. I ask the first 30 peaple i came to if they knew these people and what they did.(excuse typo. it was 50) First the singers and the no. of people who knew them: Reba McIntyre 50----Merle Haggard 46-- Patsy Cline 48--Alan Jackson 50--George Strait 50--Loretta Lynn--50 Ray Price 39-- Connie Smith 36--Jenie Sealey 33 Mell Tillis 40--Pam Tillis 42. I won't list the rest but you get the picture. NOW the Musicians: Hall Rugg 0--Mark O'conner 0--Brent Mason 0--Paul Franklin 0--"Hoot" Hester 0--Steve Gibson 0-- Jerry Douglas 0-- Leon Rhodes 0-- Jimmie Capps 0-- Bobbe Seymour 0-- Buddy Emmons 0-- John Hughey 0-- and the remaining names on the list were the same 0. People did ask who these people were and when I explained that they were the ones that appeared on the records and TV shows that play all the pretty music that made all the people you know Famous. A lot of people remarked that it was'nt fair that the musicians did'nt get any praise or reconition. I said, "you're right but thats just the way it is". I did come to realize one truth from this and that is, If you fell like you did'nt play your best sometimes, don't worry about it. Nobody knows who you are and probably don't care. I have always felt that pickers are only famous among other pickers---guess I was right.------------Eddie

Roy Ayres · Post by **Roy Ayres** » 16 May 2003 5:57 pm

Eddie:

Great post, good observations, and true conclusions.

Terry Downs · Post by **Terry Downs** » 16 May 2003 8:29 pm

Eddie, that is no surprise to me.

Roy said it well above.

The country musicians have never been well publicized, but it is worse now than ever. Think about Merle Haggard's Strangers in the early 70s. FIVE instrumental albums were released! Some of the Strangers were nominated for CMA musician of the year. If you had conducted that survey in 1973 and asked if they knew who Roy Nichols or Norm Hamlet was, you may have got near zero response too, but it wasn't because they weren't promoted. Haggard and Buck Owens were proud of their bands and did a great job promoting them (or the record companies did or allowed it to happen). They made their signature sound. This relationship does not exist anymore.

Nowadays it is more essential how a musician looks on stage and if they can barely copy the licks on the records. If they get too old or fat, just fire them (or reduce them to bus driver) and get the younger better looking copy cat. I have a great friend in Nashville (that I will not name) that was a victim of that. Some of the Strangers weren't much to look at, but I always thought Norm was pretty cute. (Norm if you are reading this, once again my best regards and respect.)

Regards,
Terry Downs[This message was edited by Terry Downs on 16 May 2003 at 09:33 PM.]

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 17 May 2003 3:34 am

And is it any wonder when the Opry will introduce the singer and ignore the band that makes them sound good.

How may times have we heard
Wow wasn't singer X great folks.. give em a hand.

and how many times have we NOT heard

Wow wasn't that a great solo from Tommy White folks?
Give him a hand.

The pickers float the boat, but get treated like the coal shovelers down below steerage.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 17 May 2003 at 04:35 AM.]

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 17 May 2003 4:08 am

...the above is just a continuation of the 50+ years that I've been around the music business as a "sideman"....

"If your name ain't on the side of the bus, you are just an unknown, replaceable employee who is lucky if he makes enough money to feed his wife and kids."

Gene
www.genejones.com

BDBassett · Post by **BDBassett** » 17 May 2003 4:42 am

Back in the day, we used to refer to ourselves as the Rhinstone Busboys.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 17 May 2003 5:09 am

Gene ain't it the truth, ain't it the truth.
There should be a a 30' off-pink argyle Silver Eagle coach with Gene Jones on it

And I bet you would list the band members below on the side.
[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 17 May 2003 at 06:11 AM.]

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 17 May 2003 7:16 am

Thanks David....when my "ship comes in" I'm gona buy one of those Silver Eagles and paint my name on the side of it along with all the other "unknown sidemen" that I have known, and then just drive around the highways of the USA with my loyal dog "Metoo" who is also an unknown among dogs....and let people wonder "who the hell is that"?

Gene
www.genejones.com

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 17 May 2003 7:39 am

LOL!!

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 17 May 2003 8:54 am

Chauffeur Sho'Good Gene !
let me know when you need one

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Steel what?

John P. Phillips · Post by **John P. Phillips** » 17 May 2003 8:56 am

Gene, good one bubba, You jes crack me up hehehe

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JUST 'CAUSE I STEEL, DON'T MAKE ME A THIEF

John Cox · Post by **John Cox** » 17 May 2003 8:59 am

Good post Edie!

Jim Bob Sedgwick · Post by **Jim Bob Sedgwick** » 17 May 2003 2:44 pm

Hey guys, Look at the bright side. We can always be Ledgends in our OWN minds.

Bob I. Williams · Post by **Bob I. Williams** » 18 May 2003 6:21 am

Great post---The stars make the big bucks and live in a fish bowl. The top pickers hopefully make a very desent living and keep thier tail out of the fish bowl BOB

Eddie Malray · Post by **Eddie Malray** » 18 May 2003 8:33 am

Terry: I never knew that "The Strangers" recorded Five albums. I would like to hear them. I'll never forget the first time I heard them. I was driving down the road with the radio on when Merle came on with "Swing Doors". I almost ran off the road. I'd never heard a singer or a band like that. I was hooked as a fan of Merle and the Strangers forever. I guess thats when I became intrested in who musisians were as much as singers. I think Roy Nicklos changed the Country lead guitar more than anyone ever has. He and Norm together have done some solos and turn-a-rounds that the rest of us will be playing a long time.

Carl West · Post by **Carl West** » 18 May 2003 8:41 am

Well stated David. There are some that credit their players but more that don't.

GENE: Glad to see ya back . .

Carl West

Terry Downs · Post by **Terry Downs** » 18 May 2003 8:47 am

Eddie,
I believe that on Swinging Doors, Phil Baugh played guitar and Ralph Mooney played steel. It wasn't until after The Fugitive album that Norm and Roy started playing on the Capitol releases. James Burton played on the Fugitive album and others like The Bottle Let Me Down.

Here is the Strangers discography.

INSTRUMENTAL SOUNDS OF MERLE HAGGARD'S STRANGERS
Capitol ST-169, 1969
Mama Tried, Don't Tell Me, Leaving Phoenix, The Waltz Of Enchantment, Tennessee Flat Top Box, Poppin' Corn, Hammin' It Up, Whooper Snooper, Terri, A Hop And A Skip, Somebody Stole My Gal

INTRODUCING MY FRIENDS, THE STRANGERS
Capitol ST-445, 1970
Stealin' Corn. Mexican Rose, Repeat Performance, Biff Bam Boom, Twinkle, Twinkle Lucky Star, Street Singer, Waltzing With A Stranger, Sing Me A Happy Song, Blue Rock, Workin' Man Blues

GETTING TO KNOW STRANGERS
Capitol ST-590, 1970
Caravan, Ham Boogie, Story With A Happy Indian, Walkin' Through My Heart, Day Happy, Scramble, Every Fool Has A Rainbow, California On My Mind, Comin' Home, Skippin

STRANGERS AND FRIENDS, HONKY TONKIN'
Capitol ST-796, 1971
Honky Tonk, Song From Sleepwalk, Just Sit Down And Cry, I Don't Love Nobody, Me And Bobby McGee, Stumbling, Raunchy, Watchin' Scotty Grow, Slow 'n Easy, Almost To Tulsa

TOTALLY INSTRUMENTAL WITH ONE EXCEPTION
Capitol ST-611141, 1973
Cotton Picker, When The Roses Die, Sittin' On Top Of The World, Champagne, It's Only Love, Cherokee Fiddle, Country Gas, See The Sunset, Goes Without Saying, Over The Rainbow, Swing High
[This message was edited by Terry Downs on 18 May 2003 at 09:52 AM.][This message was edited by Terry Downs on 18 May 2003 at 05:57 PM.][This message was edited by Terry Downs on 18 May 2003 at 05:57 PM.][This message was edited by Terry Downs on 18 May 2003 at 05:58 PM.]

Eddie Malray · Post by **Eddie Malray** » 18 May 2003 9:11 am

Heres another good one: Last Fall, Earl Thomas Connelly came to our small town to do a show. I wen to hear some good steel guitar. Guess what. There Was'nt one. As Disapointed as I was, Earl put on a great show and the band was super. Earl shared the stage with everyone in the band. They were all good singers. Now the good part. He called the bus driver from the bus and ask him to do one. He stepped up to the mike and dang "Today I Started Loving You Again". He was the best singer on the show.

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 18 May 2003 9:25 am

on some old records you can hear crowd claping after every solo Lloyd Green played (exm.live at the Panther hall),today...all those chicks don`t give a damn,they are looking at the artists butt and scream.I got shocked another day at Tootssies when after my solo people start claping and some girls even screamed,o boy,does that made me feel good,somebody is actualy listen what I do...great feeling.Wish there was more moments like that.

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David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 18 May 2003 10:50 am

This problem comes from the bad habits of the country music recording industry. From the beginning they hardly ever listed the musicians. The idea was that they were "just session people" and only the vocalist was important. Also, it has always been common practice for vocalists to use road musicians for shows, but to use session musicians for recordings. They were considered interchangeable, and who they were didn't matter. Top 40 and R&B have done the same thing.

This is in complete contrast to jazz and album rock. In those genres the band and its members are important, and they are usually listed on albums. The fans follow who plays what, who quits, who joins, etc.

The name says it all. In popular music (country, R&B, pop) singles and albums are associated with the vocalist's name, it's all about them. They could have a different set of musicians on every track, and no one would know or care. They're just hired help. In Jazz and rock, the singles and albums are associated with the name of the band. Different members might sing on different tracks, but the musicians are mostly the same, and are listed, as are the guest artists. Buddy Emmons is probably listed on more country-rock albums, although he played on only a few, than on the hundreds of country albums he has played on. This is the sad situation of popular music. One would hope that on reissues they would begin to list the musicians on classic oldies. Old jazz reissues make a fetish of listing evey player on every cut, going back 80 years. Too bad the country music recording industry does not do this. They are throwing away so much music history.

Roy Ayres · Post by **Roy Ayres** » 18 May 2003 12:30 pm

A lot of good observations, but I have just one more: I'd rather my peers (other musicians) appreciate my work than lose my privacy to public fame.

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 18 May 2003 12:48 pm

This is not only a phenomenon of country music- "The Funk Brothers" the Motown house studio band of the classic years with who played on more #1 hits than Elvis and the Beatles combined are unknown to the general public til this recent attempt to rectify:
http://www.standingintheshadowsofmotown.com/ [This message was edited by Dave Van Allen on 19 May 2003 at 07:51 AM.]

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 18 May 2003 1:19 pm

wow,great link Dave.

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CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 18 May 2003 1:42 pm

Thanx DVA

good one allright

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 18 May 2003 4:20 pm

Well, shucks! Singin's EASY...ain't it? I mean, you're not using your fingers, your feet, or even your knees. And, you're only doin' one note at a time, an' that makes it a lot harder to screw up, don't it?

Hummph!!! A BIRD can sing! But it takes TALENT to play a pedal steel.