Do you favor....C6 or E9 tuning?

Neil Lang · Post by **Neil Lang** » 22 Jan 2003 12:21 pm

Just curious as to how many of you favor one tuning or the other? And which one you are most comfortable playing? Both? As for myself I love both, but am perhaps a bit more "at home" on the E9th.
Neil

SHO-BUD SUPER PRO 8x5 NASHVILLE 1000

Hal Higgins · Post by **Hal Higgins** » 22 Jan 2003 12:36 pm

Hey Neil...I like both, too, but I suppose I'm more proficient on the E9th. I've been "woodshedding" a lot on the Cth. Might even be able to play it someday...

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Be Blessed........HAL
'85 Emmons LeGrande D-10, Rack w/Evans, Tubefex 2, 1501-4 BW's

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 22 Jan 2003 2:20 pm

Neil

I favour E9th, but I think that's mainly because, when I was first drawn to PSG in the '70s, E9th was principally what was heard on the 'big' records of the 'country-rock' era.

The first top-class playing that I heard (when I lived in the UK) was Buddy Emmons on a Ray Charles album - we all know that he's at home on both necks(!!!), yet he mainly played E9 on that 'date'.

Having said that, I've been working hard these last two years to redress the balance - if I'm not out playing, then all my practise-time is spent on C6th....

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Roger Rettig

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 22 Jan 2003 5:23 pm

I should add that my perspective on this is different to most people's - we in Britain simply didn't get to hear the full range music featuring steel guitar like you did here. Before long, though, somebody played me 'My Funny Valentine' by Jernigan and I started wondering!

I have a feeling this 'thread' is in the wrong place....[This message was edited by Roger Rettig on 22 January 2003 at 05:25 PM.]

Bill Llewellyn · Post by **Bill Llewellyn** » 22 Jan 2003 6:53 pm

I gravitated toward E9 from the beginning, partly because it's what's used most in (popular) country music and partly because I find it easier to understand and work with.

I started out in music on the piano (long before PSG). Another steeler once told me that it is easier for keyboardists to pick up on E9. It does seem to be the case with me. I love the sound of C6 (B6 on my universal) but when I try it, it usually trips me up enough that I go back to E9 to where things seem to work better for me. Plus I'm able to get a fair amount of C6-sounding chords on the E9.

I do have a Jeff Newman video for the B6 tuning on my U12. Someday.....

Gary Walker · Post by **Gary Walker** » 22 Jan 2003 10:50 pm

Neil, having been a Chalker fan for over 40 years, my choice is the C6th but the E9th is not far behind, Gary.

Anders Brundell · Post by **Anders Brundell** » 23 Jan 2003 2:19 am

The E9 is my favourite. I find it very hard to think C6 and feel at home there. I´ve learned some C6 stuff by heart, but I´m unable to improvise on C6. Any hints on how to improvise on C6? I bet we are many C6 illiterates.

Neil Lang · Post by **Neil Lang** » 23 Jan 2003 4:15 am

I'm sorry I put this thread in Events! It was an honest mistake! I must have pushed the wrong pedal or picked the wrong string! Thanks for your input, so far E9 seems to have the edge?

Jerry Hayes R.I.P. · Post by **Jerry Hayes R.I.P.** » 23 Jan 2003 4:51 am

I play a sort of E9/B6 Universal and I prefer the E9th side but when I have to play a swing or rock type thing I always lower those E's automatically and use the B6 side as it seems to work so much better for the single note riffs without having to use the pedals. On my lap steel I prefer the 6th tunings.....JH

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 23 Jan 2003 7:59 am

I am at home on either. But this is probably because I played a triple neck Fender before migrating to the PSG. And C6 was the neck I used the most, since I am and ardent fan of JB; who invented C6 for the lap steel.

So when they added pedals to C6 (some to get what JB was doing with slants), it was as natural as falling off a log.

Also, since the other two necks were tuned to A6th and E13th respectively, the E9th tuning was instantly "at home".

But the finality to this is my U-12 is perfect for me. I am never aware "what" tuning I am playing in; at any given moment. And I do NOT think tuning. I think musical voicings and the pedals/knee levers that are required to get those voicings just make it wonderful for me.

I can see how someone who started on a PSG; because of hearing E9th sounds; would find the C6 neck or the B6 part of the U-12 cumbersome; and even frustrating. Mainly because there is NO direct A and B pedal sound on C6. It was NOT designed for this.

UNLESS, you play C6 as I do. And that is to emulate what Jerry Byrd does. In this case the A and B pedals are as necessary on my B6 tuning as they are on the E9th side of the tuning. This is because that is how JB plays. He does NOT do the "western swing" style of playing which rarely slants the bar. He slants the bar instead. So, strings 5 and 6 using A and B, becomes an absolute must playing this way.

As a result, I dearly love this U-12. Again, I have not thought about "tunings" since I got it. I use ALL the C6 pedals (and knee levers) strictly to get JB stuff; because I don't care for western swing all that much; and was never very good at it anyway. I hear the "western swing" voicings, but I have never been able to find most of them, like BE and CC, Herb Steiner et al do so effortlessly. Also, they are changing grips often while playing C6 and this has ALWAYS been a problem for me. Maybe due to the fact I have small hands, not sure.

"whatever floats yer....."

God bless you no matter what you play,

carl

Billy Easton · Post by **Billy Easton** » 23 Jan 2003 10:22 am

I tend to gravitate to the C6th. I started in the mid 1950s on a lap steel with (eventually) a C6th tuning, and just always think in those terms. It is not a conscious decision for me, and I play a little E9th, but I find myself always going back to C6th.
When I recorded my CD (available from the Forum), all the songs were done on the C6th neck. I just feel more comfortable there.

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Billy Easton
Casa Grande, AZ
Southwestern Steel Guitar Association

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 23 Jan 2003 10:30 am

To paraphrase Carl's eloquent comments, it seems that the question "do you favor E9 or C6" is not a complete question... the question should be "what style of music do you prefer to play"? The answer to that will determine the appropriate tuning to play...E9 or C6.

I do not consciously think in reference to E9 or C6. The music to be played triggers an automatic response to the appropriate tuning without consideration of preference. www.genejones.com

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 23 Jan 2003 2:04 pm

Room 101; stuck in a room with an avid C6 player. I can think of nothing worse.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 23 Jan 2003 4:20 pm

Moved to 'Steel Players' section.

Reggie Duncan · Post by **Reggie Duncan** » 23 Jan 2003 5:26 pm

E9th. I get enough sixth sounds on E9th to please my boss. I play a single on a double frame.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 23 Jan 2003 8:37 pm

I'm studying C6th right now. I find it more difficult to become profficient at than I did on E9th, but I find it much more interesting and enjoyable than E9th. Especially after I pass a hurdle and make progress in my swing playing. To me, swing is where its at.

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 23 Jan 2003 9:53 pm

Any hints on how to improvise on C6?

A few.

1. You must learn bar movement. C6 doesn't allow you to hang on a single fret and mash pedals. So you must be able to move the bar horizonally on the same string across several frets.

2. Figure out how to play a major scale, and move between the notes of the major scale across multiple frets. Learn to use strings 3-8. These 6 strings are where 95% of your notes are played. You absolutely must be comfortable covering the major scale across the whole fretboard. No staying on one fret.

3. Learn to cover all your chords with the major scale. Otherwise, you'll be thrown whenever you see a non-major chord. For example, you should know that if you are in the key of C, and there is a Dm7, Em7, or Am7 chord, the C scale will continue to be used over any of those minor7 chords. You should find the connections to the major scales for the chords in the song that you want to improvise to. Figure it out before you start playing to the song, or you'll quickly get lost. As you get more used to it, you find yourself picking out the major scale quicker.

4. Use a program like Band-In-The-Box to practice your improvisation.

That's plenty to start with. Good Luck .. Jeff

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 24 Jan 2003 6:34 am

I most of the time play E9th. But do like my A6th. set up It's set up so.. I can play it. I,m no Emmons,or any of the great C6th. players. I can get more out of my A6th. set up than there C6th set up,mainly becuse I don't know it as well. So I tune it my way becuse I'm. more at ease with it.It's better my way than just using it just for a arm rest.Joe

Anders Brundell · Post by **Anders Brundell** » 24 Jan 2003 8:08 am

Thanks, Jeff!
I love playing scales just about as much as going to the dentist, but I´ll learn them anyway - at least to some degree - and see if it helps.
Anders

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 24 Jan 2003 8:57 am

Jeff, thats excellent advice. I am finding that as you say C6th requires much more and quick bar movement than E9th. It helps my E9th playing also.

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 24 Jan 2003 9:49 am

BTW, practicing scales does not necessarily mean always playing the notes in the order of the scale. Besides practicing them in order, you should be able to bounce amoung the frets and find the notes of the scale. What happens when you do this is that you don't necessarily learn where each specific note is located, but you learn tonality, that is, you learn how a particular combination of notes sounds, which is very important in improvisation. There is no way that competent, fast improvisers know every note they are playing, but they do know the tonality of the positions and patterns they play. So, for example, if I play notes of the C scale at the 4th fret, it creates a tonality that sounds "E-ish" in nature because that is the main position for E chords (E, Emaj7, E7, Em7, Em7b5, etc.) I can find plenty of notes from the C scale at the 4th fret, but the tonality will be strongest in terms of the E note. IMO, learning the tonality is at least as important, if not more so, than learning specific notes. Of course, each person develops a unique style, and this is just how I look at it, and certainly not written in stone.

JERRY THURMOND · Post by **JERRY THURMOND** » 24 Jan 2003 4:38 pm

It has always been more fun on the C6, but I made more money on E9th. So when Iam not getting paid it the C6th all the way. Jerry

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 24 Jan 2003 5:11 pm

I think that E9 and C6 are both beautiful tunings, each in their own way.

I will have to admit that I feel more at ease and familiar with C6(E6 for me). But that is because of my Early background in years gone by.

I was playing steel almost 30 years, 20 years on my 6 pedal pre-war Electra-Harp, when I heard Bud Isaaces play slowly on a Webb Pierce record. That was a big seller in my Music Store in Northern Michigan....al

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 24 Jan 2003 9:35 pm

Topic: Do you favor....C6 or E9 tuning?

Why yes, of course!

Brad Sarno