A tale of two steel builders...

Gerald Menke · Post by **Gerald Menke** » 29 Jul 2002 7:21 am

A year ago, I placed an order with a steel guitar builder who shall remain nameless. To make a VERY long story short, a year and $2000 later it was abundantly clear that no steel was on its way, so on the advice of a fellow player I contacted the Williams Guitar Company. Which I did. Bill was as friendly as could be, emailed me pictures of some steels he had ready to go, and was happy to take the time to help me with what would be a $3400 purchase. He had a guitar that was essentially exactly what I was looking for, and shipped the D-10 to me for next day delivery. I played it that night at a show here in New York. The steel arrived just as described, and friends, it is an amazing instrument. I cannot recommend the Williams Guitar Company's product highly enough, and strongly encourage anyone thinking of buying a new steel to give a Williams a try. Absolutely first-rate craftsmanship, superlative tone and playability, incredible sustain, and handsome as the day is long. My heartfelt thanks to Bill for a great instrument that will help me take my playing to the next level.

Gerald

BobG · Post by **BobG** » 29 Jul 2002 8:41 am

I'll second that ...

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Bob Grado, Williams D10 (lefty), Peavey 1000,
Profex ll.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 29 Jul 2002 5:45 pm

And what about the two grand. Did you get it back?

Enquiring minds want to know.

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Lee, from South Texas

Marco Schouten · Post by **Marco Schouten** » 30 Jul 2002 6:44 am

Actually we want a full report

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Steelin' Greetings
Marco Schouten
Sho-Bud Pro III Custom; Sho-Bud LLG

Gerald Menke · Post by **Gerald Menke** » 30 Jul 2002 7:06 am

First let me say, that my intention with this post was to accentuate the positive; Bill Rudolph makes a really great steel guitar, and is 100% forthright in his dealings, I feel he deserves consideration by anyone in the market for a new steel. The other builder showed less than no consideration for me, essentially an example of how NOT to treat someone spending $3600.00. At this point it is up to MasterCard to get the dough back for me. Fortunately I had the presence of mind to pay with a credit card...I played my Williams 400 series last night and just can't say enough good things about the guitar. Bill Rudolph has me on stages here in NYC playing his steel, and praising it on the Forum, the other "builder"? Just one more angry customer, trying to get his money back.

Marco Schouten · Post by **Marco Schouten** » 30 Jul 2002 9:59 pm

The Williams guitars are certainly nice. I hope someday to get a Williams 400 SD-12 universal, keyless with pearl inlay.
Keep on dreamin'.

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Steelin' Greetings
Marco Schouten
Sho-Bud Pro III Custom; Sho-Bud LLG

[This message was edited by Marco Schouten on 31 July 2002 at 04:16 AM.]

Gerald Menke · Post by **Gerald Menke** » 1 Aug 2002 6:45 am

Hey all,

Thanks for your interest in my post; a number of you have asked that I reveal the name of the "builder" in question. As I require their cooperation with MasterCard to have even a ghost of a chance of getting my money back, I think it would be ill-advised of me to mention them by name on the forum, regardless of whether I am in the right or not. I will say this. I made my deposits with one "instantiation" of the company, which unbeknownst to me, was "acquired" by the present owner. In their view, as they re-incorporated after the takeover, they are under no obligation to build my guitar,(not that they felt it was necessary to mention this to me until I pressured them by demanding written proof they were building the steel, or I would dispute the charges.) This, after one year of regular calls from me, and one year of the same assurances that the guitar was in process; they were waiting on the mica, or the necks or whatever. That said, this story should be familiar enough to all to determine who the "builder" is.

My biggest gripe is that they could have just been straight with last September, and I could have disputed the charges right then and there, within the 60 day window MC allows. As it stands now, I am at the mercy of MC making an exception for me, as I've initiated the dispute process so long after the fact. I am sure that the steels they're making now are of the highest quality, in keeping with the tradition, but the way they handled my order was absolutely indefensible.

Let me close by saying I am proud to play a Williams steel guitar, and happy to have supported a builder who makes a fantastic instrument AND was a pleasure to do business with. I was up playing my 400 Series until 2:30 this morning, it's such a joy to play I couldn't tear myself away.

Fred Jack · Post by **Fred Jack** » 1 Aug 2002 8:19 am

Gerald, don't give up on M.C.. I had a situation 6-7 years ago with Bally Health center and they would not refund a couple thousand dollars that I clearly had coming as a refund. It took at least a year with Visa until they finally saw fit ( they being Visa) to refund my $2,000. These c.c.companies are in a position to do that. Hang in there! It takes a lot of correspondence between all parties. regards,fred

Gerald Menke · Post by **Gerald Menke** » 1 Aug 2002 9:12 am

Dear Fred,
Thanks for the vote of confidence. You should see the stack of correspondence I have already!! The best part is definitely the photocopies of my receipts the builder sent me for $1000 a piece.

Chippy Wood · Post by **Chippy Wood** » 1 Aug 2002 10:00 am

Hi Gerald,
Firstly, I hope you are successful in getting your money refunded in this despicable deal.
Secondly, it would do all the 'Steelers' a favour by disclosing the name of the company, they deserve to go under, lack of orders would ensure this.

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Ron (Chippy) Wood
Carter S10/Pad

Gerald Menke · Post by **Gerald Menke** » 1 Aug 2002 10:57 am

Dear all,
The simple fact is the company that took my 2 grand doesn't exist anymore; even in my view, the "builder" who is running the show now really isn't to blame for the wrongs of the previous owner. They re-incorporated to protect themselves. For that reason I cannot name the "builder"; that would be unfair to them, as the new owners really just don't have my money. What IS inexcusable is the way they handled my case after the takeover. No contact, no update on the status of my order, nothing. They called me ONCE in one year.

I've seen evidence that they are building guitars, taking them to shows(!) and of course shipping them to dealers. So apparently they are filling orders that have come in since the re-incorporation, making good on their commitments. I am sure the quality of those instruments is first-rate. BUT... The bottom line is that they weren't going to fill my order, so I had to do what I could. I really pity the poor souls who sent (the previous owner) bank checks, personal checks, as that money is going to be tough to dig up.

I posted this tale not to drag the company through the mud, as that was done competently months ago by individuals with NO first-hand knowledge. I merely wanted to depict how differently two companies building the same product can operate.

It's sad it turned out this way, as I'd probably be getting somewhere on the jazz neck by now if I'd had a steel with a c6th neck on it since November. As it stands now I'm just getting started, and the last year is gone for good.

Ron Page · Post by **Ron Page** » 1 Aug 2002 10:59 am

Okay, we'll accentuate the positive. I'm positive you'll get your money back. The card industry depends on consumer confidence that their rights will be protected. The card companies have the leverage to follow through where the individual does not. You were indeed smart to pay by credit card.

For the curious, I believe there are a couple of hints there as to who the manufacturer is. How many of them reincorporated recently?

By the way, reincorporation doesn't relieve any company of previous liabilities any more than it liquidates their assets. I'm sure your credit card company will drive this point home.

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HagFan

Brian Lethert · Post by **Brian Lethert** » 1 Aug 2002 11:54 am

Williams Steels are first-rate, Bill Rudolph is someone I would definitely do business with, AND my S-12 hasn't broken a G# string YET. (I'm going to leave it on until it does, just to see how long it takes).

Brian

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 1 Aug 2002 1:06 pm

I've had my Williams for a year and a half, with zero string breakage so far. It's a fine instrument, and the tone just blows people away.

And yes, Bill is very easy to do business with. He seemed more interested in getting my specs than my deposit.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

George McLellan · Post by **George McLellan** » 1 Aug 2002 2:39 pm

Yes b0b, that sure sounds like Bill.

"And yes, Bill is very easy to do business with. He seemed more
interested in getting my specs than my deposit."

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SUAS U' PHIOB
Geo

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 1 Aug 2002 2:57 pm

Gerald, would you please post where you play in NY?

Larry Beck · Post by **Larry Beck** » 1 Aug 2002 7:01 pm

Williams Guitars.
I think they are built like Paul Reed Smiths and priced like Squires. By the time I get enough spare change to buy one, people are going to figure out what great guitars they are, and the waiting list will become months instead of weeks.

Bill Rudolph is also one nice guy.
In May I visited Bill's shop. I saw the prettiest rose colored steel I have even had the pleasure of coveting. Bill took time out of his busy work schedule to give me a guided tour of his crossover steel. His changer 400 changer design has the right amount of string breakover to sustain with a less severe angle to minimize string breakage. The tone is rich, full and I can still hear it in my mind 3 months later.

When I can sneak enough money out of the house, I'll have him build me a guitar.

Just a small observation about his shop, Bill puts his tools back when he finishes one job, before he starts the next. If you saw my shop, you'd know why that impressed me.

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 1 Aug 2002 7:56 pm

There needs to be more people like Bill Rudolph. I like honest friendly people.

Marco Schouten · Post by **Marco Schouten** » 1 Aug 2002 9:14 pm

Gerald, can you share some pictures with us ??

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Steelin' Greetings
Marco Schouten
Sho-Bud Pro III Custom; Sho-Bud LLG

Olli Haavisto · Post by **Olli Haavisto** » 1 Aug 2002 10:46 pm

I hope these posts steer more business Bill`s way , he deserves it ! When I ordered my blue/natural D-10 he sent pics of the gtr before assembling to ask if the blue was right. I wanted it darker... No problem, he re-stained it and sent new pics. Talk about customer service...
BTW , the guitar is a perfect combination of tone, looks and size (weight) for me.
I´ll have to get a S-10 keyless for camping trips...

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Olli Haavisto
Polar steeler
Finland

[This message was edited by Olli Haavisto on 01 August 2002 at 11:48 PM.]

BobG · Post by **BobG** » 2 Aug 2002 4:09 am

I'll jump on the wagon here and express my total satisfaction with the "lefty" D10 he built for me two years ago (no extra charge).
Bill Rudolph is "The man" as far as i'm concerned. You simpy can't "not" trust him!

Gerald Menke · Post by **Gerald Menke** » 2 Aug 2002 7:53 am

Dear Howard,
Thanks for your interest! I tend to chase Bob Hoffnar around here in the city, playing The Lakeside Lounge, every Sunday night at Hank's Saloon in Brooklyn, Luna Lounge, Joe's Pub, the C-Note, you know the usual suspects. I'll post the next time I have something going on. The weekly thing at Hank's is a total blast, just 100% country, playing for the drunks and loonies who wander in for the free barbecue. Recommended. Hank's is located on the corner of 3rd Ave and Atlantic, in scenic downtown Brooklyn, we usually get started around 9 and do a second set around midnight.
I am going to try to post a picture next.

Gerald Menke · Post by **Gerald Menke** » 8 Aug 2002 8:49 am

Hey all,
I wanted to mention that I got a call from the MasterCard dispute department today, who informed me they had charged my account back for the $2000 that Jim Aycoth made off with in July 2001. Moral of the story here? When possible pay with a credit card, everybody.

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 8 Aug 2002 8:54 am

That's great news Gerald, and great advice too!

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 8 Aug 2002 9:00 am

Did someone say "free barbeque"? (hic!)