Sound Card MIDI vs Roland VSC88 MIDI

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 21 Apr 2001 4:24 am

Has anyone really done any in depth analysis to see if the Roland VSC88, that comes with BIAB, really does better than ALL sound cards.

I've tried it several times, with several different sound cards and can't really see any improvement over the sound cards. Yesterday, I recorded a couple of different passages to my Tascam recorder - once using the SoundBlaster MIDI and then the same passages with the Roland VSC88 installed (and selected as the playback MIDI device). I played them back through my stereo system and I couldn't tell any difference. The cybals sounded identical, the bass was identical, the keyboard was identical, etc.

I tried it once with my old IBM Aptiva that had a wave table, no name, sound card and I couldn't hear any improvement in the instruments.

I've tried it two different times with my current PC and a SoundBlaster AWE64 sound card and can't tell any improvement over the built in MIDI synthesizer in the AWE64.

I suspect it may be an improvement over some of the "built in" sound moudules that Compaq, HP, etc use on their motherboards, or some of the less expensive sound cards. But with the sound cards I've tried I do not hear any differnce. I've tried various MIDI files of different types of music (rock, classical, pop, the samples that came with Cakewalk, etc) not just BIAB when I was listening for differences.

It also did not justify loading another module at windows startup and taking more system resources.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 21 Apr 2001 5:45 am

That's strange. My VSC-88 sounds worlds better than my AWE64. It's so obvious, anyone could hear it (on my system). I wonder if there might be some setting that keeps getting knocked out on your system, so that you're not really running the VSC-88? But then, that shouldn't have happened on both your computers. I'm stumped.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 21 Apr 2001 6:07 am

Jim, that's my problem. I keep hearing how great VSC88 is and I keep trying it and I don't hear any difference. When I've had it installed, the BIAB MIDI is set to use the VSC88, etc, and if I go to control panel and then multimedia, the Roland is set as the default MIDI playback so there shouldn't be anything causing it to default to the SoundBlaster.

Everett Cox · Post by **Everett Cox** » 21 Apr 2001 8:40 am

Jack -- On my system with a middlin' good Yamaha card, the VSC I got with BIAB is a DISTINCT improvement. You have often stated that you considered your SB card to have a better synth and, perhaps for you, it does.

The fact that you say you notice NO DIFFERENCE comparing the VSC to any of several sound cards, though, is very strange. While you may, or may not, prefer one over the other, you should cetainly hear a change in the several cymbal, guitar, piano, etc representations.

With your computer expertise, there is nothing I can think of to explain it but it really seems you're NOT getting through the VSC. ???????? -- Everett

Everett Cox · Post by **Everett Cox** » 21 Apr 2001 9:43 am

Jack -- Just read your reply to Jim and thought of something. Seems so obvious and simple that I hesitate to suggest you've missed it - but we're all human!!!!

After installing VSC, you should have a 'helper' icon in your system tray. (Hope this is not one of the 'unnecesary' items you've deleted from the systray.) Left-click to bring up a small selection menu.

On that menu is a selection to NOT use VSC.

You might want to double check that this and other features are correctly set for your system and preferences. You should be able to 'A/B' sound output simply by starting a midi file with/without the 'don't use VSC' selected/unselected. On my system, using the 'directx' features also make some difference in output quality.

Double-clicking the systray icon or otherwise loading the VSC module brings up a window'd app that, among other things, gives you detailed access to various VSC settings as well as reverting to the defaults. There is more to VSC than is evident by simply installing and using its defaults.

Hope some of this may provide help. On my system, VSC made a BIG improvement when listening to most midi music. I don't use it much for recording, though, due to the latency of a software synth. --Everett

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 21 Apr 2001 11:11 am

Everett, when I have VSC88 installed, I let it default to whatever it sets up, including the icon in the system tray. After installing the program, I restart windows so that everything comes up properly. If I doubleclick on a MIDI file, the Roland midi player comes up and plays the file, etc.

My evaluation of the MIDI instruments, whether it's being produced by hardware (SoundBlaster AWE 64) or by a software module (Roland VSC88) is how close it comes to actual instruments. e.g. cymbals, bass guitar, keyboards, horns, etc.

Along with BIAB files and some other MIDI songs that I have, I have several excellent demo MIDI files that came with Cakewalk and with SoundBlaster. These demo files utilize many instruments and are designed to show off the MIDI capabilites. These are excellent programs to use to compare MIDI synthesizers too.

Maybe my AWE64 card is an exception. I know that I tried a newer SoundBlaster Live (MP3 5.1) and I didn't like the MIDI in that at all (tried all the different MIDI banks). It sounded "artificial" compared to my AWE64.

Here's something to sample. Listen to the demo I have of Sleepwalk (mp3) on my web site. The accompanyment track for that was done with BIAB and my AWE64 MIDI. See how it sounds to you (or Jim). http://tampabaydsl.com/~jestoner/cd.htm

Everett Cox · Post by **Everett Cox** » 21 Apr 2001 3:50 pm

Well, Jack -- Back to square 1, I guess! I was sure that you DID install VSC correctly and WERE aware of the few things I pointed out. Which, again, begs the question - Why don't you notice a difference betwee VSC and the SoundBlaster???

Please don't misunderstand me -- I'm NOT saying VSC produces REALISTIC emulations. I have not heard ANY sound card OR VSC that has a real-life bowed violin, for instance. And some guitar types are not very good. Nor is a sax. Etc,etc.

As you have previously noted, however, many of us DO consider VSC an IMPROVEMENT over our sound card/chip. Now that you have gotten me interested, perhaps I can try an experiment.

If time permits next week, maybe I can try recording some midi played with/without VSC to wave files. Then, if I can locate an old program I had, analyze and graph the spectrum. That might show whether there is a big, or moderate, difference between the two.

Your recordings sound fine. How they would have come out with VSC, though, is still a question. In any event, it's GREAT that you are happy with the SB performance. That is what counts! --Everett

Fred Murphy · Post by **Fred Murphy** » 21 Apr 2001 5:24 pm

Virtual Sound Canvas doesn't sound as good on my computer either. I have a HP. I use Rip Tide MPU and AWE.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 22 Apr 2001 4:15 am

Everett, I don't know that a spectrum analyzer will really tell anything. The main thing is whether or not whatever synthesizer is being used is reporducing a realistic representation. e.g. is a high hat cymbal being reproduced realistically or is it "close" or does it sound "artificial".

I'm glad Fred commented that it doesn't sound as good to him either. I thought I was the only one and was wondering if it was just my "hearing".

Ken Lang · Post by **Ken Lang** » 22 Apr 2001 1:45 pm

I know this conversation is about the roland vsc. Just wanted to add my solution.

Neither the soundblaster card or the vsc was to my liking. About a year and a half ago I upped for the Roland JV-1010 sound module. According to reports, this is as good as it gets for MIDI.

I am very pleased with the sounds (except banjo), and I would guess that wouldn't bother too many here. If you really want great midi, bite the bullet (about $500) and you will be very happy with your MIDI sounds.
Ken