Cubase LE?

Tony Harris · Post by **Tony Harris** » 8 Jun 2005 7:51 am

I'm thinking of getting into recording to computer, but need up to 8 mic inputs at once. The Presonus preamp/interface looks good for this and comes with Cubase LE software. Anyone had any experience of this? I know Pro Tools seems the way to go to be compatible with the pros...
If I started on Cubase, how easily would I be able to learn Pro Tools at a later date?
Thanks.

Kiyoshi Osawa · Post by **Kiyoshi Osawa** » 8 Jun 2005 8:45 am

Hi Toni,

At our studio, we are allways using some iteration or other of steinberg software: Cubase, Nuendo, Wavelab...etc...

I haven't used the LE version of cubase, but I'm sure it's a good starting point if your intention is to produce music. If you are into using midi and virtual instruments and the like, probably Cubase is better than protools.

The pro tools LE package, the one that us humans can afford on a "project studio" budget, is probably comparable to the features you would get with Cubase. But essentially, Pro tools is a more robust RECORDING software package, as opposed to Cubase, which is more a Music COMPOSING software package.

Either way, all audio programs work under the same principles: Timelines, tracks, regions, etc. If you can use one, you can get use to any other.

One thing to keep in mind. Most recording software will work with ANY audio hardware that is available for your computer. EXCEPT PRO TOOLS. Pro tools will only work with ITS OWN PROPRIETARY HARDWARE.

if you have more questions, you can e-mail me if you want, or just keep em coming.

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Williams Keyless U12

Tony Harris · Post by **Tony Harris** » 8 Jun 2005 9:33 am

Thanks Kyoshi, for that advice. I'll probably be recording mainly 'real' instruments, often playing together - small acoustic groups, jazz trios etc. and occasionally using programmed drums. But I also want to be able to cover speech recording and editing... I know how much ProTools has been adopted by the TV, radio and film industries, but I have heard negative things about Digidesign and their 'attitude'. I'm also not keen on what I've seen of their hardware, and don't like the fact that I HAVE to use it...

Kiyoshi Osawa · Post by **Kiyoshi Osawa** » 8 Jun 2005 1:19 pm

I actually just noticed your in England. Everybody there uses Cubase... or Logic Audio on macs (now owned by Apple) Mostly for electronic music though. I'm sure your just a stone throw away from someone using Cubase.

Anyway, our studio produces music and sound design for broadcasting and film, and for both applications, Nuendo suits us much better than Pro Tools. The basic nuendo package (around 1500 USD) contains everything that the 10,000 USD pro tools package has. that is, time code synch, pull up and down, number of tracks, DSP power...

I could go on and on about why Pro tools sucks, but that's just my opinion

so I'll just get to the point. For a home or project studio, I would very strongly recommend against Digidesign, since it would lock you to specific hardware and software. If your'e buying hardware from some other company, you have the option of using it with any other software to do the same thing you could do on Pro Tools for less money.

Also of note, but difficult to express tactfully. If you plan to.. uhm... acquire your software without... uhm... exactly paying for it... then you would basically only pay for your audio hardware and be able to use it with your choice of proffessional Software recording packages...

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Williams Keyless U12

Matt Steindl · Post by **Matt Steindl** » 8 Jun 2005 2:43 pm

There are tons of programs you can demo for free before buying. Havent used Cubase in years, but back then it seemed more aimed for midi intensive uses as opposed to what youre talkin bout.

Cool Edit is cheap and works well. Good luck!

Chris Rohde · Post by **Chris Rohde** » 8 Jun 2005 3:06 pm

TOny - I don't know as much about comupter recording as Kiyoshi does, so take my advice with the proverbial grain of salt. I have Cubase SX, and I've been very happy with it - I think you might find that the LE program is a little limited, so you may be tempted to get the upgrade at some point. Even if midi instruments are not your main interest, there is a surprisingly wide variety of free instruments/sounds that are available, and they work very well with Cubase. I think it would be somewhat of a bummer to learn Cubase and then try to learn Protools - while the basics of these programs are pretty easy to master, there are a whole litany of features that take more time to get comfortable with, and they are unique to each system. Sound on Sound is a great magazine for computer recording advice - I would check that out for sure. They did a pretty extensive review of interfaces within the past year that I thought was very well done. Its available on line, and if you subscribe you get access to the back issues. Good luck with your decision!

Jeff Peterson · Post by **Jeff Peterson** » 8 Jun 2005 5:08 pm

ProTools can be expensive..hardware/wise. Most all complete recording programs now are really close to working the same(screen look..commands..shortcuts). If you are recording analog, not alot of midi or synth, any of the entry-level programs will suit just fine. I think all the PC programs accept VST plug-ins and will bounce or save to any format( AIFF, WAV, MP3, etc.). Most have at least 48 inputs and unlimited midi, all for usually $90. Another hundred or so for an interface and you're off. Full versions, Nuendo, Logic, Digital Performer, etc. are kinda' pricey...plus, it's really helpful if you have a monsterly fast computer w/at least a couple of gig of RAM(you know, plug-ins..zero latency..and like that). A few bucks=alot of fun! And yes, PreSonus has a 10X10 Firewire interface(24bit) that includes Cubase LE for $599....a good buy I think.[This message was edited by Jeff Peterson on 08 June 2005 at 06:12 PM.]

Dave Boothroyd · Post by **Dave Boothroyd** » 8 Jun 2005 10:47 pm

If you are anywhere near the West Midlands, get in touch and you can come into College and look at all the different programs and see which you would be happiest with.
Cheers
Dave

Tony Harris · Post by **Tony Harris** » 9 Jun 2005 12:41 am

Thanks everyone for your advice. My dilemma is because my day job is recording and editing speech, and post-production for radio and TV. And I'm sure that sooner or later we'll end up using Pro Tools. At home, a music package would be what I need, so I could end up working two systems...
And thanks Dave for your offer. I'm sure any of the software packages would do the job. (Presonus and Tascam include Cubase LE, and I'm told a Mac comes with Garage Band 2 included.) I like to do things in the simplest way - I was recording before sequencers, synthesizers, waveforms, click-tracks, almost before editing. "I'll roll the tape - you play it right!"

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 9 Jun 2005 4:14 am

I like to do things in the simplest way - I was recording before sequencers, synthesizers, waveforms, click-tracks, almost before editing. "I'll roll the tape - you play it right!"

The trick is to keep thinking like that and not get intimidated by all the editing capabilities. Just think of it as just another multitrack recording machine, with integrated mixer and effects, and then you can get into all that 'other stuff' later if you want/need to.......

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Kiyoshi Osawa · Post by **Kiyoshi Osawa** » 9 Jun 2005 6:42 am

I would have to agree with Steinar. Although to be honest, I'm part of the newer generation of engineers that started when digital recording was already the standard, most software is designed for people who are used to physical recording machines. People who have grown accustomed to having big LED's and VU meters, and a fat knob to twiddle here and there...

Although there is alot of grey area where broadcast audio post and music recording intermingle, you certainly use your ears in different ways for the two applications. Especially if you are producing performed music.

But the bottom line is you can use any software or hardware combination, with any number of features to do basic home recording. I used FLASH to make a multitrack recording once... Yes, the web animation program! It was very labor intensive, but it worked...

A side note: Avoid spending your money on an all in one solution. It's better if you build your studio slowly and add better quality components one by one.

good luck!

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Williams Keyless U12

David Wren · Post by **David Wren** » 9 Jun 2005 1:41 pm

I purchased the Presonus "Fire Pod" (with the Cubase LE) interface last summer, and haven't had time to play with it. Last week I finally tried to install it in my WinXP laptop, and had problems with the install program fully completing (seems to be connected to the XP SP2 upgrade).... hope it works as good as it supposed to. If you get one, let me know if you have the same install problem.... email me if you like.

Best of luck, seems to be a real portable approach to digital recording(8 separate inputs with 2 Mic preamps, firewire connection, and all inputs take XLR or 1/4/inch jacks).

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Dave Wren
'95Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Session500; Hilton Pedal
www.ameechapman.com

Les Pierce · Post by **Les Pierce** » 10 Jun 2005 5:30 pm

I have been using n-Track Studio http://fasoft.com for many years, and at one time, and on a different machine, I had a INCA 88 sound card. It had 8 in and 8 out, and n-Track, which supports ASIO drivers, would use all of them. (Although having all 16 recording/playback stripes open crowded the screen a little. Didn't need them open, but looked real cool). Worked perfect for my old drum machine, as that was the number of outputs it had.

The INCA is no longer supported, and mine doesn't work anymore, anyway, but AudioTrak is still making something like it.

n-track is a shareware program, costing around $45, and comes with several built in effects. It has always worked well for me, and is simple to use. It is also more of recording software, and is somewhat limited if you want to do looping and MIDI, although it can be done to some degree.

Les

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Strat,Tele
Dekley S-10

Dave Boothroyd · Post by **Dave Boothroyd** » 11 Jun 2005 3:12 am

Tony, do you use Sadie at work?

(Please note that this is not an accusation of inappropriate behaviour with female colleagues- Sadie is the BBC's sound editing programme).

If you do, there is no reason why you should not use use that for your recording as well.
The closest program to Sadie is Digital Performer, so DP 4 would be worth a look too.
Having said all that, any program is frustrating after you learn to get the most out of Sadie- oops- I'm back to innuendo again!

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Cheers!
Dave

[This message was edited by Dave Boothroyd on 11 June 2005 at 04:14 AM.]

Gary Shepherd · Post by **Gary Shepherd** » 11 Jun 2005 10:09 pm

My vote is for Sonar 4. I use a MOTU 24I/O in my studio. 24 ins and outs. I rarely need that many but it's nice to have them when the need arrises. There are 2 on ebay now for under $1000.
gs

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Gary Shepherd

Sierra Session D-10

Carter D-10

www.16tracks.com

Gary Shepherd · Post by **Gary Shepherd** » 11 Jun 2005 10:11 pm

My vote is for Sonar 4. I use a MOTU 24I/O in my studio. 24 ins and outs. I rarely need that many but it's nice to have them when the need arrises. There are 2 on ebay now for under $1000.
gs

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Gary Shepherd

Sierra Session D-10

Carter D-10

www.16tracks.com

Tony Harris · Post by **Tony Harris** » 13 Jun 2005 3:17 am

Dave, I don't use Sadie (not at work anyway!).
We use DAR Soundstation. Great for voiceover and post-production work, but not a music programme. No sequencing, bars, bpm, etc...

I'm wondering if any of the simpler programmes allow you to 'scrub' the audio to edit - the Soundstation does it brilliantly, it feels just like 'tape'. (Younger guys may need to look this up!)Can you scrub with a mouse? May need some sort of controller with a knob. (Is Sadie a scrubber?)

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 13 Jun 2005 3:38 am

Nuendo and Cubase SX has a very functional scrub wheel, but I am not sure if this is featured in Cubase LE.

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Kiyoshi Osawa · Post by **Kiyoshi Osawa** » 13 Jun 2005 7:06 am

Scrubbing is a very basic transport function. I couldn't find any particular info on the steinberg page about it, but I'm sure it's part of Cubase LE. Usually what's missing from "limited" or "light" versions are timecode, synch capabilites and bundles that include plugins, virtual instruments and the like.

We actually bought a small controller for our voice-over room, just so we could shuttle and jog old school... but the particular model we bought, allthough it includes a shuttle/jog wheel, wasn't supported for that funtionality in Nuendo!!!!

In anycase, jogging and shuttling can be assigned to shortcuts at varying speeds.

try the steinberg site. Lot's of info, and a very busy support forum.

There's also the nuendo post forum specifically dealing with post production.

UPDATE: found this on the steinberg page:
http://www.steinberg.de/webvideo/cubasesl3/English(UK)/doc/Cubase%20Feature%20Comparison.pdf

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Williams Keyless U12
[This message was edited by Kiyoshi Osawa on 13 June 2005 at 08:13 AM.]