Do you pay to play??

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 24 Jul 2006 8:40 am

I've been reading on Craigslist here in Nashville and apparently a local Bar and Grill (Brentwood) is asking for jazz musicinas to come and play for nothing. There's a thread there that says that some pickers in Southern California are actually paying to play there. I've heard of this in the strip bars but are pickers paying to play in your area? It's a tough nut to crack here for sure to get a steady gig. It's actually tougher than that but paying to play? How's the playing situation in your area for steady work? Do you work four or more nights a week, just weekends, or only one nighters? I consider music to be a supplemental income so I don't depend on it but what about your area? I said about fifteen years ago that one day the pickers would play for tips only on Lower Broad but seeing how good business is and the owners watching the tip jug, I could've been wrong about that. They just might wind up paying to play here. We had the owner of The Legends complain once about how much money we made in the tip jug. He said that money would've went to the bar if we didn't have that jug up there. He actually tried to pay us even less than we were making, a whole $20 each! We wouldn't go for it and soon didn't work there anymore and haven't since. I haven't worked downtown for a while since it's such a pain to play there but paying to play is way out there. It's like saying your talent is worth absolutely nothing!

Larry Strawn · Post by **Larry Strawn** » 24 Jul 2006 9:10 am

Frank,
The music situation in this area [Kingman, Az.] sucks. We only play one night casual stuff anymore because of it. We don't make much money but we do make some. If it is ever suggested to "pay to play" I'll pack it up completely!

I'd rather have a Bar-B-Que with friends and pick for our own enjoyment!

Larry

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Stephen Gregory · Post by **Stephen Gregory** » 24 Jul 2006 9:16 am

I'd say anything under $75-80 is "paying to play".

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 24 Jul 2006 10:13 am

Frank, I think "pay to play" has been going on for a while in some places, notably LA, where management for relatively unknown bands pay for showcase gigs to get seen by music industry types. I wouldn't do that myself, but I'm not trying to be a big rock or country star.

But I can't imagine anybody paying to play a neighborhood bar - that is bizarre. "Yes, sir - We would like to pay you $200 for the privilege of having drunk yahoos blow smoke in our faces and yell for Free Bird."

Stephan - I guess how much money is reasonable depends on a lot of things. In NYC or Boston, I'd guess one needs to make more $$$ than in a rural area where the cost of living is much cheaper. It also depends on whether or not someone is making a living at this.

In the end, it's supply and demand, eh?

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 24 Jul 2006 11:31 am

Gigs don't pay a lot around here, and some venues probably don't pay at all, but I don't think anyone pays to play.

Billy Wilson · Post by **Billy Wilson** » 24 Jul 2006 12:02 pm

There was a system in place out here where the club gave you tickets to sell before the show. You owed them the money from the sales when you showed up for the gig. Any money from extra sales whnt to the band. As I recall, this was challenged in court and struck down. BOGUS!!!

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 24 Jul 2006 12:06 pm

The pay to play thing is for singers and bands who write and sing their own original material, who hoping to get discovered and signed to record contracts.

I think it's safe to assume most people here either play in church, or else play mostly cover tunes in bars or VFW or "animal" lodges.

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Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 24 Jul 2006 12:39 pm

My son lives in Seattle and for a while he playing in a modern r/r band doing their own stuff and payed the bars to play and collected the cover at the door. The band kept the cover charge. He said they didn't do bad at all and seldom worked over an hour set. They would have to get their own network of fans and send out their play dates in e-mail and phone calls. Man that's really working hard to get a band any work.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 24 Jul 2006 1:38 pm

Frank, paying to play is like saying your talent is LESS than nothing ....

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 24 Jul 2006 4:49 pm

Back in the old days when I did music for a living if you'd open for a name act or play for an artist you'd be paid as the union used to be pretty strong and most things were covered. I moved to Virginia about 21 years ago to work a day job and play music on the side. The whole scene was like night and day from SoCal. I'd get a call from a band at times and they'd say "Can you play with us at (so & so) we're opening for ?? I'd ask what it paid and they'd say "It doesn't pay anything, but we get a lot of exposure". I've never minded playing a benefit at all but on a regular show the opening act(s) should be paid a regular wage. I can't believe how some of the top bands in this area play those things for "exposure".......They still aren't doing any better than I am not doing that stuff....... There are a couple of places here where we play for a meal and tips and always make between $50 to $80 for two hours so that ain't too bad. Like someone said before, if I ever have to pay to play I'd probably hang it up too........JH in Va.

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Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 24 Jul 2006 5:00 pm

They paid me nothin - and I performed accordingly....

Mike Ester · Post by **Mike Ester** » 24 Jul 2006 5:29 pm

<SMALL>I'd ask what it paid and they'd say "It doesn't pay anything, but we get a lot of exposure".</SMALL>

Ah, I remember that phrase in my younger days. Of course, that is why I have a day job and another side gig besides the music.

Jim Bob Sedgwick · Post by **Jim Bob Sedgwick** » 24 Jul 2006 10:29 pm

Just take off your clothes and run down the street. You'll get all the exposure you need, plus free room and board at the grey bar hotel. And you don't have to haul all that heavy equipment.

Smiley Roberts · Post by **Smiley Roberts** » 25 Jul 2006 12:53 am

A guy offered a pickin' job one time.I said,"What's the pay?" He said,"I'll pay you what you're worth." I told him that I wouldn't work THAT cheap!!

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Bo Borland · Post by **Bo Borland** » 25 Jul 2006 3:36 am

A few years back my band was "offered" the opening act job for both Conway and Mel Tillis at the Broadway Theater in Pitman NJ. The owner said we would get lots of exposure but no money. We would have to take a night off of our regular sit down club gig, 6 nites a week for a month at a time, and get a replacement band for the night.
So I told him that I could get more exposure if I dropped my jeans and mooned outside on Broad Street.

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 25 Jul 2006 3:38 am

Hey Smiley

LMAO hahahahahaha

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 25 Jul 2006 4:25 am

I just remembed there were times when I had to pay to play. When I worked with three brothers who ran up a bar bill higher than the nights pay. Guess who got stuck digging? Thats why I never drank,

I just couldn't afford it.Thennnnnnnnn along came free drinks.I found out later I couldn't afford them either.

Honest osifer I just had one.

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Dave Giegerich · Post by **Dave Giegerich** » 25 Jul 2006 5:21 am

Up north people die from exposure.

Clyde Mattocks · Post by **Clyde Mattocks** » 25 Jul 2006 5:59 am

To second Jerry Hayes' comment, I never have
noticed that the bands who play for exposure
get any more real work than the ones who charge a fair price. There is also the
attitude of "Lets get a monster sound and
lights system so that we can also furnish
production for the exposure of opening for
some one-hit wonder who needs the exposure".

Stephen Gregory · Post by **Stephen Gregory** » 25 Jul 2006 7:10 am

If you think about it in any sort of "business" terms, I still maintain that most "local" musicians play for free ie, break even or "pay to play". I realize that is hard to come to grips with but it's true, in most cases. If you don't think so, itemize all of your true costs associated with your gig. You will be surprised at the total cost. Don't forget to factor in the additional hours of packing, unpacking, set-up, rehersals, cost of gear, transportation, meals,& on and on. Let's be honest with ourselves.

Thom Beeman · Post by **Thom Beeman** » 25 Jul 2006 11:18 am

Hey Bo, I don't want a moon shot, but how about a picture?

Luke Morell · Post by **Luke Morell** » 25 Jul 2006 11:30 am

I've never had to pay to play, but I've played alot for free, or got a free meal.I have a sticker on my guitar case that reads "Musician - Will play for food". Now if we make any money it goes in the gas tank, or McDonalds.

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 25 Jul 2006 1:26 pm

Pay to play.... Hmmm, done that twice in my life, and it cost me A LOT of money, unfortunately it didn't involve music.
No, I'm not gonna do it with the music.