Chinese Fenders

thurlon hopper · Post by **thurlon hopper** » 16 Apr 2006 7:08 am

Any of you tried the new Fenders being built in China? Was in Sam's Club yesterday and tried an acoustic/electric Fender made in China. Plays nice and chords accurately, but didn't get to plug it into an amp. They also had a strat type fom China. Still prefer American series Fenders personally. TJH

Robert Kazee · Post by **Robert Kazee** » 16 Apr 2006 7:33 am

I have the American Strat, I try to avoid anything made in China.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 16 Apr 2006 7:41 am

The Chinese guitars aren't meant to be compared to the American ones - they are strictly price-point units meant for the lower-end consumer market.

Translation - they're beginner instruments, not pro-quality, and priced accordingly.

Some of them are not too bad, actually. Usually the hardware and electronics are inferior in comparison, but the "wood" stuff can be OK and you can make a pretty decent guitar with some upgrading

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 16 Apr 2006 10:36 am

Yeah well..

I bought a Butterscotch Blonde CIC Affinity. I went down to GC, tuned an American a MIM and the Chinese Tele. The kid handed me each plugged in without looking, and I chose the CIC hands down. Sound, feel, action, and everything. I had 1300 bucks to spend, and I just couldn't buy something that didn't feel, look, or sound good. (Sorry Uncle Sam).

Took it home, put an input cup, 4 ply guard, and a set of schallers. No scratches in the pots or the switch. Plays like a dream. I touched the neck adjustment slightly as it was probably like my ASAT set up for 010s, and took a couple feathers off the sides of a acouple frets with a jewelers file and a magnifying glass. Less than I'd felt on the MIM.

I've taken it to gigs and had other guitar players play it, and they just can't dismiss it as a "low end" guitar, much as they'd like to. The pickups too are funny. They seem much better than the overwound ones on the MIAs and MIMs. Maybe they used closer to "original specs" instead of later muddier, "hotter" stuff.

Maybe the fact that if they turn out crap, the craftsmen and women will be looking at another half a lifetime in a Red Chinese Prison makes for better motivation. I dunno. The guy or gal that made mine sure had a lot more quality in mind than I've seen in the "Western" counterparts.

It's always been about "The" individual guitar. I've played with guys that would go down a rack of Fenders in a store, and pick the one that sounded, felt, and played the best. Seldom was it Made in America. (Buster's favorite was a MIJ Bullet. He had a Paisley Burton Big Dave gave him for basically free, and he wouldn't even play it.) Actually just before he "retired" he fell for an Ernie Ball guitar. It was really expensive, but it was really nice.

Actually, after buying and retouching a total of 6 guitars over the last year, the best one I've found is the ASAT MIK Premium Tribute Tele. I can about guarantee that in total darkness I'd find my two favorite guitars to be the ones I picked, bought, slightly modded and set up.

None of them cost more than 5 rocks, and none of them were made in the US. Appearantly the electronics, PUs, and hardware are all US made and shipped to Korea for assembly on my ASAT Premium Blueburst.

Sorry. My politics make Barry Goldwater look like a left wing pansy, but a guitar that feels good and plays good is above them.

Keep 'em coming Huang.

EJL

[This message was edited by Eric West on 16 April 2006 at 04:24 PM.]

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 16 Apr 2006 3:30 pm

I have had 3 Korean guitars, still have one and it's become my main guitar. That's saying something, considering how many great American guitars I've had, check out the photos of some of them in my website.

I've never had a Chinese guitar but I played some in downtown Mexico City last year and was amazed, almost bought one. Priced $125-$300 and played and sounded very good. There was a Gretschy-kinda hollowbody I really liked, and lots of excellent for the money Fender-types.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 16 April 2006 at 04:32 PM.]

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 16 Apr 2006 4:08 pm

My current acoustic is a China-made Alvarez dreadnought w/ cutaway, pickup and a solid cedar top. It's a very nice guitar, and I'd compare it favorably to several Taylors I've owned. You would have to spend $2k to buy an American-made guitar to equal it. This guitar sells for about $750.

I wish things were different, but them's the facts.

Gordon Borland · Post by **Gordon Borland** » 16 Apr 2006 9:59 pm

Why would anyone try to avoid buying anything from China?
I am old enough to remember my first japanese
portable radio in 1950. It was about as big as a ballpoint pen and had a clip on a wire that you would clip it to a waterpipe and the other wire had an earpiece. The music market forced me to buy from the chinese market or go out of buisness.
The fenders found it the big discount stores are designed to sell to parents. There is also a card in the fender box that tells the customer to take the fender to an authorized dealer to have the warranty put into effect.
Like Japan, trade with them or fight them at some point. China is a market for our products. opps... there's the coffee..I can tell it is ready three rooms away.

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Gordon Borland
MSA D10,FENDER STEEL KING, [This message was edited by Gordon Borland on 16 April 2006 at 11:01 PM.]

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 17 Apr 2006 2:41 am

well as long as we are on the subject..

When I had my Epiphone Es335..( just sold it) It played better and actually WAS better than all of the 335's I have owned with the exception of the 66' which is still in the posession of one of my good friends.

This Korean 335 blew away my most recent Gibson 335 from 1985..which I bought new.

Now, I still have an Epiphone Wildkat..with P90's and a Bigsby...this is a great Guitar...

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water...half the stuff we buy everyday comes from a land unknown..and

who really cares...

I know I don't...

But, my primary Tele is USA..just cause It works for me...my 2nd go to Tele is MIM 50's classic...also a great Guitar...

Made in Mexico or Made in the USA by Mexicans ? which is it ?

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TPrior
TPrior Steel Guitar Homesite

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 17 Apr 2006 4:18 am

I think that the American economy is headed for serious trouble, in that we have fewer and fewer producers. No nation can maintain a vigorous economy based on service industries and retailing stuff that is made in other countries- there have got to be some primary producers- farmers and manufacturers. We keep closing farms and factories and shipping jobs to Mexico and China- and there's a point at which that's going to bite us. We also remain dependent upon foreign oil, which is a flawed and short-sighted strategy.

We can't seem to keep our family farms going but, at the same time, we refuse to put pressure on the auto industry to make cars ethanol-friendly. By doing this, we could put the farmer back to work and, at the same time, address our transportation energy problems.

But I still like the China-made Alvarez!

Curtis Alford · Post by **Curtis Alford** » 17 Apr 2006 4:35 am

IMHO greed has driven our products to overseas companys.
It's the middlemen who are better by it. If the china and mexico products were not available ours would be less expensive and made at home in the USA

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 17 Apr 2006 5:00 am

Less expensive? Now there's some logic.

I suppose it's because the manufacturers would not be greedy.

EJL

Bob Smith · Post by **Bob Smith** » 17 Apr 2006 5:50 am

I dont understand why any even semi- serious musician would consider an instrument made in china or any of those slave labor places.There are plenty to choose from that are made right here, ther not that expensive by any stretch so whats the big deal? You can polish a terd all day but its still a terd at the end of the day. Just ny opinion boys, bob

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 17 Apr 2006 6:14 am

George Benson has been playing Off Shore Guitars from the get go...

Ibanez..I believe is still made off shore....

I'm thinking he is a pretty serious contender in the Musician department...

I personally think musicians should play whatever Instrument it is that makes them play better..regardless of where it comes from...

I have been a fan of USA all the way, and in most cases hold firm..but at the same time I'm not giving that Epiphone Wildkat away either..

Politics and economics can be applied and discussed in almost everything we do and buy...

and lets not forget, the folks that are selling these Chinese and Korean Guitars are working here in the USA...they are being paid an American wage to sell stuff...

A young student goes into GC to get Fender Guitar, his very first..it's made in Chine'r..

10,12,20 years later..he graduates to a dozen or more USA classic guitars...

He dreams of the day for a 52RI or Custom shop Tele....

and he gets it...[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 17 April 2006 at 11:46 AM.]

Marlin Smoot · Post by **Marlin Smoot** » 17 Apr 2006 6:22 am

I have a 1984 - 62 RI Tele Custon MIJ (made in Japan) which I feel is just as good as the $1,300 American version. About the only difference is the body wood, its popular in place of ash or other.

There was a time when I never thought about buying one of these "cheap" guitars but as my old guitars got older...it no longer made good business sence to continue taking them to bar gigs, I invested into the Japan Tele.

I upgraded the pickup to Kinmans, comp'ed brass saddles and a set-up from a pro and I couldn't be more happy. If this guitar gets broken or ran over, I can replace it. I got this guitar for $500 and I've seen them go on ebay for over $700.

I love American guitars, own a few and always take excellent care of my equipment, but I enjoy giging with this replacable guitar.

I haven't tried the CIC guitars but I do know the people over there make a great fiddle (Violin) and have for many, many years. Some of those instruments bring high dollars.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 17 Apr 2006 6:22 am

A Ford plant is closing in St. Paul, MN in a couple of years. The average union auto worker in the plant is receiving approx. $56,000 a year in wages. There is a good chance that some other manufacturer would set up business in the plant, however, the labor unions in Minnesota have soooooooo much clout that they will not let another business in there unless they are union.
Is this a free country or what?

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 17 Apr 2006 6:32 am

Personally , just my mere take..Some Unions , not all...have done as much to push US manufacturing off shore as any other factor, maybe more...

sorry, don't mean to offend...

AND.. what about all the other stuff we use while we are playing our American Guitars ?

Yamaha, Roland, stomp boxes, effects etc.. Lord only knows what else came in a container from the Far East..

I guess the new reference is..Chinese/ Korean NG........Japan now OK...

Last I looked, Japan was still not part of the USA..

but heck it's only Monday...things can change...

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 17 April 2006 at 07:44 AM.]

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 17 Apr 2006 7:03 am

Don't forget the foreign oil and gas heating our homes, and fueling our cars, and the cars themselves, and the repair parts, and 3/4 of the stuff in WalMart, and the peaches and plums in midwinter from Chile, etc., etc. Sure, blame it on the unions. Few workers belong to them anymore, and the unions aren't the guys sitting in the corporate board rooms earning 500 times the workers' wages and making all the decisions and deals with their foreign corporate brothers. Why should musical instruments be a special case? No longer being young, I no longer have all the answers. But I sure have a lot of questions.

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Student of the Steel: Zum uni, Fender tube amps, squareneck and roundneck resos, tenor sax, keyboards

Bob Smith · Post by **Bob Smith** » 17 Apr 2006 9:45 am

I dont really care what George Benson plays or buys. I care about what im doing. Tony ,im glad to see your still hot on my trail. lol have a beautiful day bob

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 17 Apr 2006 10:45 am

Hey Bob, I didn't know there was a trail !

and I care what I buy too...

I just wanna play better..

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 17 April 2006 at 11:47 AM.]

Ian Finlay · Post by **Ian Finlay** » 17 Apr 2006 1:46 pm

Well, I'm from the UK (actually, a number here are non-US), so labelling "offshore - i.e. non-US - as "bad" kind of gets me.

Burns guitars were the equal of Fenders, and how about Marshall and Vox amps and so on and on.

Not wanting to get all political, since this is the wrong place, but the people who work in China/Japan/the EU etc. all have families to feed, kids to educate, elderly relatives to look after and so on. If they can make a wage that's reasonable relative to their local economy, good luck to them.

Mind you, all my guitars except one are American. The one is a handmade Japanese Aria acoustic that's the equal of any Martin I ever played, and I sold my '56 J200 because the Aria was better at everything!

Ian

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 17 Apr 2006 3:47 pm

There are PLENTY of USA made guitars that are relatively inexpensive! Some examples:
Peavey tele and strat copies are very inexpensive and just as good as the Asian clones.
Carvin makes a Strat copy in a kit that sells for way under $400 that is a great choice for the DIY'er, my next guitar.
My personal fave is Godin,machined in Canada, assembled USA. I had an Exit 22 that was a terrific guitar, but too heavy for me, so I traded it in on a Freeway classic that is an incredible bargain, under$350.
I also own(ed) an Am. Stndrd. Strat that was stolen; a homeade ash tele with Warmoth, Stew mac, Seymore Duncan and Epiphone mini; two great Carvins, one strat copy, one 2 humbuckers, mahogany bod; one very cool 65 melody maker with(added later) 2 p90's and a tuneamatic; a MiM Nashville Tele that is one kick*** guitar; 2 made in Canada Larivee accoustics(maybe the best dollar for dollar accoustic available), a Yamaha AE, an Ibanez classicAE, and a made somewhere else Squire P bass that I use a lot more than I thought I would(7 gigs on bass the last couple months).
The point is that there are great guitars in any price range, available from almost any country you choose. Eric, if you're happy with "whatever", cool. If return on investment is important, buy the US Fender or Gibson, not the PV or Godin or Carvin, the resale sucks.
I wish I had the choices in the 60's that kids today have. You can get really decent stuff for just a couple hunnert bucks.
Sorry for the long "I" riddled post,but guitars are my "thing"(ask my wife)! JP

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 17 Apr 2006 6:24 pm

Well JP, I expect to get my return by playing it, in fact I already have. My Marrs paid for itself in 6 months, I figure my CIC paid for itself in a week. This ASAT will have made it's cost last weekend and this coming one.

My Harley, a 63 stroker has plenty of Chinese chrome on it since the environuts shut down most of the US chroming operations. Matter of fact, about the only things that are purely American Made are the Frame, Motor Drive train, and the leather I made the bags out of. STILL, by the numbers, it has more USA Made parts in it than ANY NEW Harley Davidson claimed to have been "Made in the USA".

I put 17k into it, and did everything but the lower end together myself, and painted it myself. I might make a grand tops on it figuring my two years worth of work at 50 cents an hour...

I invested my money in a house for a "return on my investment. After 12 years it's gone from 62k to 260k. THAT's a "return on an investment". So's a guitar that pays for itself in a weekend.

I wonder how many feet ANYBODY would get without stepping on, wearing, crapping in, drinking from, driving, or TYPING on something that doesn't put some 56,000/yr+20,000/yr Journeyman something or another "out of work". Damn sure, the last one puts every one here out of the game.

Besides. My FENDER Affinity Squier Telecaster came here LEGALLY.

Hello! The Company NAME ON THE GUITAR IS !!FENDER!!. The FENDER company bought the materials and hired people to put it together , QC it, and ship it to me.

It's a FENDER.

Somebody doesn't like it? Talk to the Fender Company.

It's also an AMERICAN GUITAR. It didn't come here illegally. It's got more papers than half the people that put their guitars together over here. I bought it legally, and it's MINE. Iff'n I lived in Poland, and owned it there, it would be Polish.

I like the way it plays over the other guitars I played that day at GC. I REALLY HAD 1300 bucks in my pocket.

Thanks all.

EJL

[This message was edited by Eric West on 17 April 2006 at 07:28 PM.]

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 17 Apr 2006 6:40 pm

It's got more papers than half the people that put their guitars together over here.

LOL!