Key of the song

joe long · Post by **joe long** » 27 Mar 2006 6:47 am

When a song is recorded, who decides the "key" in which the song will be recorded?
I have noticed that a lot of songs are recored in F or Bflat. Is there a reason for this? My experience has been that a lot of musicians, who I play with, will do it in E instead of F. Sometimes the song does not have the same sound when it is taken away from the key in which it was recorded.

Does the instrumentation decide which key the song is to be recorded in? Steel, fidel, etc.

Pete Finney · Post by **Pete Finney** » 27 Mar 2006 7:15 am

It's almost always whatever key feels best to the singer. As it should be...

Horn players tend to favor the "flat" keys;
F, Bb, Eb etc. which lay well on their instruments. For the same reason guitars players tend to favor the "sharp" keys: E, A, D etc. Unless it's a steel instrumental you can be pretty sure that no producer, bandleader or arranger is going to care what the steel players preference might be![This message was edited by Pete Finney on 27 March 2006 at 07:21 AM.]

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 27 Mar 2006 9:43 am

The pitch is sometimes raised slightly during mixing, after the tracks are cut. This seems to brighten up some songs. Thus, some songs that seem to be in F on a record or CD might actually have been played in E; and what seems like Bb on the final, might have been in A. As Pete mentioned, for vocals, the singer chooses the key that fits their voice best for that particular song. For jazz instrumentals, horn preferences make F, Bb and Eb favored keys. Blues guitarists like E and A. Country and bluegrass pickers like G and D. Fiddles like G and A. Keyboards like C (no black keys). Drummers like the key of loud.

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Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 27 Mar 2006 10:58 am

It seems like keyboard players favor flats also. I just tabbed out a gospel song that was written in the key of Db, 5 flats. Boy, that was a booger!

Erv

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 27 Mar 2006 12:20 pm

I spent a year (an enjoyable year) playing bass in a New Orleans style dixieland band back in the 80's. With a Horn and Clarinet, I did get tired of playing mostly in Bb and Eb.

LARRY COLE · Post by **LARRY COLE** » 28 Mar 2006 5:55 am

E,A and D are not Sharp, they are Natural, as are all the Letter Keys unless they are specified Flat or Sharp. Notes in between the Letter can be either sharp or flat; A#/Bb, C#/Db, D#/Eb, and F#/Gb.

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Pete Finney · Post by **Pete Finney** » 28 Mar 2006 6:06 am

E, A and D, along with G, B, F# (and sometimes C# which of course is also Db) are often referred to as "Sharp" keys because they have sharps in their key signature...

Smiley Roberts · Post by **Smiley Roberts** » 28 Mar 2006 6:09 am

...bluegrass pickers like G and D...

They also like "B natural" for some reason,because I "sat-in" w/ a Bluegrass band once. And,for some reason,I have a "mental block" of B-nat. I cannot "lock-in" to it,& usually slip back to Bb,or up to "C".

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D Schubert · Post by **D Schubert** » 28 Mar 2006 8:06 am

Bluegrass singers can be very particular about the key of a song. It's usually due to a vocal trio -- trying to get all three voices pitched in the upper 1/2 of their range. For that reason, our bluegrass band does various songs in B, E, A, D, G, C, F, and Bb. And one guitar-only gospel quartet in F#. As weird as it might sound to an outsider, a change of 1/2 step is significant in that context.

For all of the traditional breakdowns and fiddle tunes, there is one key where they were written and that's where ya learn 'em. Usually a key that's friendly to the primary instrument. A for Old Joe Clark on the fiddle. C for Rawhide on the mandolin. G for Earl's Breakdown on the banjo. And so on...

c c johnson · Post by **c c johnson** » 28 Mar 2006 8:36 am

In a LLoyd Green interviewhe said he recorded this particular album mainly in flats as he believed it made the song sound better. When I get time I'll look up the album and pass the info on. CC

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 28 Mar 2006 2:45 pm

E, A and D, along with G, B, F# (and sometimes C# which of course is also Db) are often referred to as "Sharp" keys because they have sharps in their key signature...

Pete..
I think when you say 'Are Often', that you're treading lightly, (and I understand why) I think more often than not ,or, usually, or normally, would be expletives with more clout IMHO.

With regard to keys, Personally I think if you stray too far from the written key, you tend to loose the composer's desired effect, and whilst some do just that, I would prefer that those who do, would write their OWN songs rather than TRYING to re-write someone else's.
we do have a duty to history to hand down to others the CORRECT versions of tunes/songs that we play.
I will probably offend those who use improvisation as an excuse for not being correct with the melody, but those of that ilk do exist, unfortunately.

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Steel players do it without fretting

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 28 Mar 2006 5:03 pm

bas, I hear what you're saying. I too am a traditionalist in many ways. However, some of the best versions of songs are often not the original versions. They stand on their own as great music, without diminishing the importance of the original version.

Two that come to mind offhand are Ray Price's version of Nightlife, which differs significantly from Willie's earlier cut of the song, and Jimi Hendrix' version of All Along The Watchtower, which is considerably astray from Bob Dylan's original.

Actually, for all music to survive, we need both the traditionalists AND the innovators. So it's copascetic after all.

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basilh · Post by **basilh** » 29 Mar 2006 3:42 am

Herb, I'm in TOTAL agreement with you, what I was 'Bitchin' about was the bastardisation of definitive versions by wannabe 'Jazz' players.. with the excuse of improvisation used for not playing the melody..

Dave Boothroyd · Post by **Dave Boothroyd** » 29 Mar 2006 7:27 am

Who was it that said that certain jazz styles were "a frantic search for the right note"?
I've heard Humphrey Littleton say it, but I don't think it was his original.
And having said all that, the madddest jazzer in the world does less melody vandalism than:-
1: a "modern" "R&B" vocalist
2: a rock lead guitarist.
Cheers
Dave

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 29 Mar 2006 9:02 am

Hi Dave, what I was complaining about was those who refuse to follow the long established protocol of "playing the melody once through, BEFORE improvisational jiggery pokery sets in !!

Dave Boothroyd · Post by **Dave Boothroyd** » 30 Mar 2006 12:24 am

I've heard players like that referred to as "Headless Chickens"
A nice combination of insult and imagery!
Cheers
Dave

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 30 Mar 2006 7:24 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>And having said all that, the madddest jazzer in the world does less melody vandalism than:-
1: a "modern" "R&B" vocalist
2: a rock lead guitarist.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>3. Willie Nelson's vocals

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 30 Mar 2006 7:46 am

Oh come on, can you name any other singer who can do so much within a half-octave range?!?... Didn't think so....

Jeremy Steele · Post by **Jeremy Steele** » 30 Mar 2006 10:29 am

"D Minor....saddest of all keys"

Nigel Tufnel

Larry Strawn · Post by **Larry Strawn** » 30 Mar 2006 10:42 am

"D minor....saddest of all keys"

Uh uh,, wrong!! Any key "I" sing in is the saddest!! lol..

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Ken Williams · Post by **Ken Williams** » 31 Mar 2006 10:55 pm

CC, I would have to agree with Lloyd. I've always thought that certain keys on E9th sound better than others, at least the way I play them. I think it may have to do with overtones produced at certain frets. For example, if I were doing an instrumental, I would select F rather than E, Bb over A, etc. This would minimize time spent at frets that produce these overtones, which to me are the 12th and to some degree the 7th fret. Of course this is just geared to what I'm playing and what I'm hearing. Perhaps someone else with better technique may not hear any difference at all at these frets.
As far as vocal tracks, I would think it is the singer's preference. I have notice over the years tracks that seem to have been speeded up on the mixdown. Don't know that for a fact, but always thought that it may explain why certain records are in between keys. For example, half way between B and C.

Ken [This message was edited by Ken Williams on 31 March 2006 at 10:58 PM.]

Lem Smith · Post by **Lem Smith** » 1 Apr 2006 3:12 am

Ken,

I heard Lloyd Green say, on a recording made at one of the steel shows, that he preferred playing instrumentals in the flat keys, due to it being better as far as those overtones you speak of.

Perhaps someone else with better technique may not hear any difference at all at these frets.

Well, as I said, Lloyd agrees with you, and I think anyone would be hard pressed to find any fault with his technique!!!

Lem