Drum machine gigs?

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 6 Dec 2005 6:55 pm

I've got a duo gig (me on guitar and a tenor player) tomorrow night. Out of curiosity, I brought a drum machine home tonight and plugged it into the "normal" channel of my '64 Vibrolux. I've been having a ball, just using some of the stock patterns. I'm considering taking it to the gig tomorrow night. I play fingerstyle, so I can comp a bass line pretty well with my thumb (at least hit 1 & 3!), and this setup really sounds good. I would use it on latin and swing tunes, primarily (not ballads).

Have any of you guys done a solo or duo guitar or steel gig with a drum machine? How did it work out? What are the potential pitfalls?

In the 80's I used one often for recording; however, I've never gigged with one.

This machine (a Boss DR670) has midi in and out, and it plays bass lines too (I've got the bass muted). I don't have time to figure out how/if I could work that in.[This message was edited by Rick McDuffie on 06 December 2005 at 07:15 PM.]

Terry VunCannon · Post by **Terry VunCannon** » 6 Dec 2005 8:04 pm

HI rick...I work with singer/guitarist Kris Ferris as a duo with a drum machine. Kris starts & stops the durm machine with a foot switch & plays finger style, he is great at the bass lines with his thumb which frees me up to do fills & lead on guitar & lap steel. We can do some stuff that sounds so full, we really have fun.
You will find that about 4 or 5 settings changed from slower to faster will fit a lot different material, & if you get a foot switch, you can even do a stop in the middle of a song...when you come back in, the machine will start on the one.

------------------
'49 & '51 National Dynamics, Harmos Model One, Lazy River Weissenborn, Mesa Boogie DC-3, SRV Strat.
http://community.webshots.com/user/keefriff

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 6 Dec 2005 8:29 pm

I have done it many times.
It can be quite fun.

Did a lot of DX, bass and gt gigs, with us both singing.
I occasionally did full programming for a few songs,
if we were VERY tight on the arrangment,
and the song called for breaks, not just groove.

It is best if you have a foot pedal
to stop and start the machine.
Usually there is a jack for this.

I adore playing with great drummers,
but sometimes there ain't room or budget.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 06 December 2005 at 08:29 PM.]

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 6 Dec 2005 8:35 pm

Thanks for the input guys.

At this point, I'm just going for the groove, David.

I have an Alesis D4 drum module which I run with Cakewalk sequencing software to do real programming. That setup isn't very portable, though.

I surely prefer a good live drummer, too... but it's hard to make any money if you have to split it 3 or 4 ways. We do VERY well as a duo. Cecil (the sax player) is a hoss, and I can comp like crazy. Even without a drum machine, it's a lot of music for 2 people.

Terry, my sweet wife is from Asheboro and is related to the Vuncannons. We might be kin!

[This message was edited by Rick McDuffie on 06 December 2005 at 08:41 PM.]

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 6 Dec 2005 9:16 pm

Sound better in the PA than in a Fender amp. Take it to the gig and also take a foot pedal to turn it off and on. Easier than fumbling around trying to play and operate the drum machine.

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 6 Dec 2005 10:56 pm

I did a duo with a Hammond organist (me on guitar and a few songs on steel) when I was still in highschool and for a few years afterwards, he used a Maestro Rhythm King, which was the one to have at the time.

First time playing with it, I found out real quick you'd better get your sense of tempo right. You speed up or slow down, it doesn't. It's great for getting your sense of tempo accurate.

This guy used to keep it at (what seemed like) a real low volume level, I used to think too low. Then I started hearing (and playing in some) other acts using them and almost always they had the rhythm machine too loud. That really sounds BAD. Don't make that mistake. Keep it at a low level, so you can hear it but don't let it dominate the mix. Practice with it at a low level before doing the gig, if you have time.

And yes, as Bill said, put it in the PA if you can, and if you can run it into a floor monitor aimed in your face and away from the crowd, that's even better, so you can hear the beat very well and the audience won't have to hear it too loud.

Definitely use a foot switch if it's possible to connect one to your setup. When you're setting it for the next song, keep it REALLY LOW.

Have a good one.

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 06 December 2005 at 11:34 PM.]

Marc Friedland · Post by **Marc Friedland** » 6 Dec 2005 11:30 pm

Rick,
I have played gigs before using a drum machine. Some times it went quite well, but other times not so good.
My advice is, use as much time as you possibly can to do your homework before the gig. Write out potential set lists, and determine what patterns and what tempos work best for each song. Doing this preparation work will make it easier on you on the gig, and more enjoyable for the listener, who shouldn't have to listen to experimentations on stage of trying to get the right pattern and tempo before the band can start their next song. Good luck, and have fun!
-- Marc[This message was edited by Marc Friedland on 06 December 2005 at 11:30 PM.]

Jim Walker · Post by **Jim Walker** » 7 Dec 2005 12:37 am

Hey Rick, I'm in a duo, me on guitar and my buddy Charles on bass or keybord, we use the cheapest drum machine ZOOM makes. We been playing at the hotel resorts down on the beach for over a year now. I do miss playing with a real drummer but they want small outfits that can set up and tear down in a hurry not to mention they are saving money. But for what they pay as a duo I'd play with a wind up chimp if they wanted me to. Some folks think of synthetic drummers as canned music but the way me and charles do it, it's very live. It's funny, a lot of times when we first started, we'd show up and they would say, you two? That's it? We do sound like a bigger band most of the time.

------------------
Tele-Bender-Blaster-Caster
Line 6 Amps
www.jimwalkeronline.com
Have You Seen This Steel Guitar?

[This message was edited by Jim Walker on 07 December 2005 at 12:38 AM.]

c c johnson · Post by **c c johnson** » 7 Dec 2005 4:01 am

to expand on what Jim said; make sure you partner knows he has to stay with the drummer not vica versa. Machines don't do double shuffles to compensate. cc

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 7 Dec 2005 4:15 am

Bill, I ain't planning on hauling a PA to this gig!

It sound surprisingly good through the Vibrolux- the 2X10's are a LITTLE less midrangy than a Twin would be.

I don't have a footswitch, but maybe I can find something before tonight.

All of your suggestions sound right on, boys. Thanks.

I liked the "wind up chimp" comment. Me too!

JW Day · Post by **JW Day** » 7 Dec 2005 7:07 am

RICK;
I have used some type of drum machine off and on for a number of years. This is while playing with a duo or trio. The main thing is to have your settings before you go and by all means have a foot switch. After you get used to it, most people like to use them. Good luck with it, it can be a lot of fun.
JW Day

John Rosett · Post by **John Rosett** » 7 Dec 2005 2:21 pm

i have some friends who lost their drummer, and had to use a drum machine. they put the drum machine on a tall stool, and put a mannequin head with a cowboy hat on top. when they introduced the band, they said "and the dummy on drums".

Larry Strawn · Post by **Larry Strawn** » 7 Dec 2005 4:45 pm

I do a duo with my wife on bass, me on steel, and Tele quite often, I have about 300 songs in a master book with settings and tempo printed beside them

The way the clubs are in Kingman now it's really hard to work a 4 pc. band, so the duo with elect. drum machine works just fine.

Great part about it is if we don't do a song for 2 months, when we do it again it's the same beat and tempo as the last time! It doesn't complain, want more $$, or get drunk,it's all ways there on time, and if it gets to loud I just reach over and turn it down! LOL..

I've found it's best to document all your material, so you can go right to it, but any way that works for ya is great!

Larry

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 7 Dec 2005 5:25 pm

I play music to get away from computers!

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 7 Dec 2005 5:37 pm

"Get away from computers" ??? Not possible... they're everywhere.... in your car... your watch... your effects... maybe your amp... soon they'll rule the world....

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 7 Dec 2005 7:39 pm

Did the gig w/ Brother Rhythm... for the most part, it went very well.

Lessons learned:

1) I'll take a small P.A. next time (apologies to Mr. Hatcher). The crowd was loud, and we had to turn up to the point that it was all too much for the Vibrolux. Those 2 10" Jensens couldn't handle it. Also, I had to sit with my ear in the amp all night so I could hear the drum machine... it got uncomfortable. If I had had a PA speaker on a pole, I could've put it behind me at ear level, or used a floor wedge.

2) Get a foot switch. (Wasn't that mentioned?)

Listeners kept coming up and saying "How do you make so much music with just two people?" It was cool. Cecil, my buddy, plays tenor and soprano saxes, as well as flute... and he plays all three exceptionally well... he's played with Les Brown, Natalie Cole, and a bunch of others. There was a lot going on. I think we could refine it and probably get a lot of work.

All in all, a home run!

Thanks for the advice, mis amigos.

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 7 Dec 2005 8:37 pm

Glad it went well, despite needing a bit more oomph than what the Vibrolux could give you.

Funny how oftentimes the best setups at a livingroom dry-run don't work so well on the gig, isn't it? Happens to me too. I try all my guitars, different amp settings, settle on what works best and do it at the gig and it stinks. That's life.

By the way, maybe you should think about trying a footswitch next time.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 8 Dec 2005 2:21 am

Cool, I'm glad you had fun and the audience too,
during this educational learning experience!

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 8 Dec 2005 3:37 am

You're so right, Jim Phelps. I love the way my guitars sound at home neck pickup only and all the tone rolled off... I hear that tone on recordings, and it sounds wonderful. Then I try it on a gig and it sounds like mush. By the time last night's gig was over, I was using both pickups and had both tone controls on "10".

Terry VunCannon · Post by **Terry VunCannon** » 8 Dec 2005 11:36 am

Hi Rick...What is your wife's name & when did she live in Asheboro. I am from A-boro also...small world.

------------------
'49 & '51 National Dynamics, Harmos Model One, Lazy River Weissenborn, Mesa Boogie DC-3, SRV Strat.
http://community.webshots.com/user/keefriff

[This message was edited by Terry VunCannon on 08 December 2005 at 11:37 AM.]

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 8 Dec 2005 11:40 am

Send me an email address, Terry, and I'll give you the spicy details offline.

rick@tarheelmusic.com