Saw Trick Pony in Reno over Labor Day.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 7 Sep 2005 7:57 am

WOW!! What a show. Of course, no steel, but I didn't miss it at all. High energy, great musicians, great vocals. Heidi is also very beautiful and a very good harmonica player. I will go see them every chance I can.

Opening the show for them was Billy Dean. What a waste of electricity his show was. Off key vocals, sound was muddy with all musicians playing as loud as they could and muddying up the sound so most of the time you couldn't even tell that the lead guitar was actually a guitar. Just a bunch of crappy noise. This was a medium size venue with a good sound system. The loudness was actually eminating from the stage amps and not the theatre speakers. The sound for Trick Pony was perfect.

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Carter D10 9p/10k, NV400

David Cobb · Post by **David Cobb** » 7 Sep 2005 9:05 am

I've noticed a lot of opening acts that were badly mixed, then the headlining act comes on and sounds great.
I remember seeing Junior Brown open for Asleep at the Wheel at an outdoor fair and even though he was great, his overall sound was muddied up by the sound people.
I have a theory about what is going on, but no hard facts.[This message was edited by David Cobb on 07 September 2005 at 02:04 PM.]

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 7 Sep 2005 10:10 am

I'm glad Trick Pony's show was great in the mix. They are talented and they put out good music.

Gregg had the pleasure of backing Billy Dean at the New Faces show when Billy had his first hit album released.

Billy was also the opening act for Kenny Rogers for several years. I was able to see the show at the Ryman about 4 years ago and I must tell you Billy has vocal ability. He was on key and sounded great.

It's unfortunate for Billy and the audience when sound techs break a musical performance.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 7 Sep 2005 1:10 pm

I have a theory about what is going on, but no hard facts.

David,
Just so you know, opening acts get screwed consistantly. But on a more positive note whatever your theory is about how opening acts get treated the reality is much,much worse !

Bob

Dick Wood · Post by **Dick Wood** » 7 Sep 2005 7:32 pm

I have to agree with Bob 100% because that has happened to our band many times.There is no way they want the opening act to outshine or be equal to the headliner.

This is one of the reasons I would rather play small bars than large venues.

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Cops aren't paid much so I steel at night.

David Cobb · Post by **David Cobb** » 7 Sep 2005 8:57 pm

Guys, that's what I suspected.
It's a real injustice and does no favor to the audience either.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 8 Sep 2005 3:39 am

We opened for the Oaks once, and the sound was supurb.
I don't know what happened.

D Schubert · Post by **D Schubert** » 8 Sep 2005 12:23 pm

A soundman pal of mine showed me how it's done many times. IMHO, the problem is usually due to haste and sloppiness, not malice or jealousy.

Soundchecks are done in reverse order, with the headliner first. Spend as much time as necessary with the main act to get a pleasing sound. Put all the channel volume sliders at the same level, and adjust each individual signal with the trim/gain controls -- so there a visual horizontal baseline at a glance for adjustment as the show progresses. Mark the mic locations, etc. and send the headliners to the dressing room.

Then in the time remaining (often short) move the mics as little as possible for the opening act. Do not adjust the gain or EQ at all. Use only the volume sliders...so that when it's time for the main act, you can immediately get back to their settings by putting the sliders back in a straight line. Since this will probably create feedback or other problems, cut back on the main and monitor volume by 3Db or more, as a quick-and-dirty way to minimize it -- without disturbing previous settings. If you absolutely have to make an adjustments, try to do it with one slider or knob, so it's easy to reverse.

The good side of this is that it's very quick to transition between the opening act and the headliner. The bad side...well, your ears can usually tell.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 8 Sep 2005 12:49 pm

Right. Don't buy into a "victimization" theory of malicious intent or conspiracy. Most human behavior can be explained by incompetence, impatience, laziness, greed, and good old American stupidity.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 8 Sep 2005 2:26 pm

I was sitting stage center and could tell that the volume problem and mix for Billy Dean was not a house mix problem. They just had their amps cranked to the max. Billy sang a couple of slow songs that he really did sound good on. The backing vocals were the most offensive. Trick Pony's stage volume was much more in control. The guitar player and fiddle player had their amps facing the back of the stage and let the house do most of the work. Just about every note played by every instrument was intelligable at all times. You could hear what the piano player was doing in the back of a ripping guitar lead. Very good on stage mix.

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Carter D10 9p/10k, NV400

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 8 Sep 2005 6:42 pm

You guys are right about how the sound is set up. As an opener you can get around some of those problems by bringing a good sound man with his own outboard rack. The part that can get weird is how much the opener gets "paid".
It can be absolutely shameful.

Bob [This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 09 September 2005 at 02:41 AM.]

Dave Ristrim · Post by **Dave Ristrim** » 9 Sep 2005 2:17 pm

Hi Richard. Consider this. Sometimes, bands are used to using ear monitors, not wedges. They get stuck doing an opening slot and are not allowed to set up their mixing console for their ears. So, they are stuck playing through rented equipment, not even their own gear. Trust me, I've been there.
Sometimes musicians have no concept of appropriate stage volume, if one guy is too loud, he drowns out the next guy and he has to turn up to hear himself etc. Mayhap this was the case, mayhap not.
Dave

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 10 Sep 2005 5:43 pm

Hey Dave. How ya doing? That could have been the case. I am shocked that they weren't using in-ear monitors. I couldn't tell if Trick Pony was using them, but they only had a small wedge monitor off to the right and left of the stage of the 3 main performers pointing parallel to the front of the stage.

Anyway, I had a good time and that's what counts.

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Carter D10 9p/10k, NV400

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 13 Sep 2005 10:22 am

Big tours often have automated digital or motorized consoles. Mixes for opening act and and headliner are "saved", then it's just a matter of toggling back and forth between them. Of course, this technology is changing all the time.

When my band opened for a major, world-famous rock/country band a few years back, we sent a stage plot and input list to them ahead of time, and stipulated a minimum of 16 channels. Tough! When we got there, they told us we only had 12, and we would have to make some compromises. I think they had a 48 channel board and were using 36 of them. No problem... we adapted.

The thing is, we were relegated to the 12 channels that were "left" after they had used what they needed.

We had really been working on the stage volume issue, and their sound guy was able to great job of mixing us. HOWEVER, when the headliner came on all of that went out the window... they were so loud onstage (and it really sounded GREAT onstage, 'cause I was there) that it was impossible to mix them out front. The quality of the house mix deteriorated exponentially as the night went on.