What do you call 1, 3b, 5, maj7?

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 17 May 2005 1:39 pm

I call this the film noir chord, but what is it really called. It's not a minor 7th, because that has a min 7th on top. In C would it be C minor major 7th, and written CmM7?

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 17 May 2005 2:30 pm

I call it a Minor Major7 chord.
I have a LKL flatting my 3rds,
and RKL dropping C to B so I can use that easily

I like it as the VII to I change for endings etc.
Cool chord to resolve from.

Greg Vincent · Post by **Greg Vincent** » 17 May 2005 2:52 pm

The "Vertigo" chord!

-A movie buff

Michael Barone · Post by **Michael Barone** » 17 May 2005 3:44 pm

David, I would just like to comment . . .
The opening chord in the "Perry Mason Theme".
The ending chord in "Green Eyed Lady".

But these are actually minMaj9 chords.

When using this chord as an ending chord (on keyboard, guitar or PSG) I like to take it up a notch, and substitute the mMaj9, (by playing a Maj7+5 chord 3 frets up on PSG). For example, CmMa9 is an EbMaj7+5 with a "C" bass (played by someone else).

I have always got a strange look from someone in the band or audience, when I played this chord, just once a night, back when I was playing bars.

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Mike Barone
Sho-Bud Pro-1, Nashville 112, Goodrich Pedal, BJS 15/16 Bar

I edited the post to add that I've seen this written as CmMa7, CmMaj7, for a "C" chord.[This message was edited by Michael Barone on 18 May 2005 at 04:37 AM.]

Dr. Hugh Jeffreys · Post by **Dr. Hugh Jeffreys** » 17 May 2005 4:51 pm

Maj/min = Maj7th/b3rd. ---j---

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 17 May 2005 6:47 pm

I see this chord pretty often when I play with jazz guys in NYC. Its written with a capitol letter for the chord root then a dash for minor 3rd and then a triangle for the major 7th.

I have also heard it refered to as the" money chord" when it gets used as an ending.

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Bob
intonation help

Michael Haselman · Post by **Michael Haselman** » 17 May 2005 6:55 pm

The Harlem Nocturne chord!

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Marrs D-10, Webb 6-14E

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 17 May 2005 7:28 pm

So...what if we add a 6th to it?

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 17 May 2005 8:35 pm

Okay, so it seems it can be called CmM7 or CM7b3. I couldn't find it in my piano chord book. To get the full film noir effect play it with a C root and C on top, then drop down and play the same chord with a root two steps down (G#). Play the notes separately as an ascending arpeggio. You'll feel like Jimmy Stewart and Kim Novac just walked in the room.

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 18 May 2005 at 06:55 AM.]

Jeff Au Hoy · Post by **Jeff Au Hoy** » 18 May 2005 1:27 am

For jazz piano purposes I call it a "harmonic minor" chord... but idunno if that's right.

*****

...on second thought maybe that's a bad designation because it implies a harmonic minor scale which also has a b6. But I hear it often. ??

My colleagues also use the designation "minor major seven".[This message was edited by Jeff Au Hoy on 18 May 2005 at 02:37 AM.]

Chris Brooks · Post by **Chris Brooks** » 18 May 2005 10:15 am

Like David and Jeff, I call it a "minor major seventh" chord. Think I've also heard "minor natural seventh" . Makes sense: minor triad, add a natural seven.

Mike B's "minor major ninth" is a lovely chord. Try it.

Also a 2-chord cadence, perhaps with a bossa nova rhythm:

Min 9 Minor major 9
/ / / / / / / /

Chris

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 18 May 2005 11:57 am

More of a melodic minor chord- you can even work your 6 in there 1 2 b3 4 5 6 7.

Often seen as Cm(maj7). With a 6th, you can use the unwieldy Cm6(maj7) as a chord symbol- while none of that stuff is really standardized, I think those chord symbols are fairly clear...

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http://www.johnmcgann.com
Info for musicians, transcribers, technique tips and fun stuff. Joaquin Murphey transcription book, Rhythm Tuneup DVD and more...

[This message was edited by John McGann on 18 May 2005 at 12:59 PM.]

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 18 May 2005 12:33 pm

Yeah, I really like this chord with the 6th.

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 18 May 2005 6:02 pm

If it's a C maj/min, which I've seen written as a triangle with a dash underneath, like Bob said earlier. I think of it as an A-7 b5,9 without the root. And if I see an A-7 b5, I think of it as an F9. It makes them so much more friendly.

Chris Brooks · Post by **Chris Brooks** » 19 May 2005 7:15 am

Chas, only problem with thinking of the chord using that name is that to me, the "minor 7 flat 5" is often a passing chord that the player expects to resolve; whereas the "minor/major 9" seems more of a tonic chord in that key--or a substitution for the straight minor.

Am7b5 to D7 to Gm
Am7b5 to D7 to G

CmMaj7 to Dm7b5 to G7 to Cm

(But if it helps the player nail the chord, whatever mnemonic works is OK.)

Just my theory.

Chris

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 19 May 2005 9:06 am

Chris, it's been along time since I played anything that had one of those chords in it and don't remember what the context was. What I do remember was the discomfort and the momentary, now what am I going to play, when it popped up, which usually resulted in a noodle-on-the-chord-tones, followed by relief. I was never a good soloist and after I had played my lick, for the umpteenth time. I approached each sucessive solo like I was going to get a root canal. Actually that's not entirely true, but I like the imagery.

In a different music form, I once took a call to sit in with a top-40 cover band, even though I didn't know any top-40 songs, bad idea. When we were getting introduced, before the first set, I mentioned that I didn't play bluegrass and I could prove it.

Half way through the set they called out Rocky Top, which I didn't know, and counted it off at hyper-speed. Then, solo steel guitar, I sucked so bad I was thinking of not accepting my paycheck. The guitar player finishes his blistering solo and the leader calls out steel guitar solo, again. I was thinking, didn't you hear how bad the last one was....after this one, I was so humiliated, I was thinking of changing my name and moving out of state.

Oh yes, where were we, maj/min chords, maybe a little ADD, oops shiny object.....