Long Jazz Ballad Intro's

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 4 May 2005 5:41 am

Is there a special name for those long, non-repeating, out-of-tempo vocal introductions to classic jazz ballads before getting into the first verse or chorus proper at tempo? Examples: Lush Life, Spring Can Really Hang You Up the Most, etc...

Are they just called the "Intro" or is there some other specialized term-of-art for them?
Thanks,
jc

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 4 May 2005 5:49 am

There used to be a college radio show dedicated to these show tune intros. They referred to them as "lost" because some of them were virtually unknown. I heard a few intros for tunes that I knew pretty well and indeed, I had never heard them before--some of them are pretty long and rather unrelated to the eventual song. There was a name that was applied and I just can't recall--prelude? I don't think so. Maybe it will come to me.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 4 May 2005 7:07 am

Frequently, when songs come from a musical play, these preludes were the transition or segue from the spoken scripted words to the actual choruses of the song.

------------------
Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 4 May 2005 9:41 am

Yep Herb. Couldn't have said it better. The challenge of course,is what to do with that when you're trying to work up an instrumental version. Other tunes kinda like that I've grappled with are Stardust and La Vie En Rose.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 4 May 2005 10:04 am

For an idea of "what to do with them", I'd refer you to Jernigan's take on "Spring Can Really Hang You Up the Most". Stunning treatment.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 4 May 2005 10:04 am

A Vocal Vamp.

When the band is told just play the V till I get ready to come in with the head.
That's a vamp...

But with a vocalist... well it CAN be a bit more painful...

I heard one wag with a little classical music in him,
call it an " Endless PreDenza. "[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 04 May 2005 at 11:06 AM.]

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 4 May 2005 12:55 pm

Back in the day, they referred to those sections as the "verse", confusingly enough...Paul McCartney talked about writing one at the beginning of "Do You Want to Know a Secret" ("You'll never know how much I really love you...") Tunes like Stardust have beautiful "verses" that most people don't play anymore...

Hey Jimbo, looking forward to your next release, you da man!!! (I didn't mean parole...)

------------------
http://www.johnmcgann.com
Info for musicians, transcribers, technique tips and fun stuff. Joaquin Murphey transcription book, Rhythm Tuneup DVD and more...

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 4 May 2005 1:28 pm

Maybe the reason many singers don't sing the verse on the bandstand is that the verse tends to be in free tempo, or at least ritard at the end, so it is less danceable than the chorus.

Smiley Roberts · Post by **Smiley Roberts** » 4 May 2005 1:56 pm

"Refrain" comes to my mind. Could it be?

------------------
<pre> ~ ~
©¿© It don't mean a thang,
mm if it ain't got that twang.
www.ntsga.com</pre>

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 4 May 2005 2:54 pm

The term "recitatif" comes to mind. Usually only heard in conjunction with operatic works, it's kind of a vocal styling that works as a foreground for the main story in an opera, half-singing and half-speaking. Found frequently in pop songs of the '30s and '40s, I think big bands used to use it as a segue, and then introduction, of sorts. [This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 04 May 2005 at 03:55 PM.]

Steve Alcott · Post by **Steve Alcott** » 4 May 2005 7:39 pm

Jim,the correct term is "verse".The part of the tune whose changes you solo on is the chorus.Lyrically,the verse usually sets up the chorus,which in some cases makes no sense without it.See "A Sleepin'Bee" by Harold Arlen for a prime example."Lush Life",too,to a lesser extent.You might want to pick up a copy of "The American Popular Song" by Alec Wilder.

------------------
Williams keyless S-10,Acoustic Image Clarus SL-R,Marrs cab

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 4 May 2005 7:45 pm

Steve's right, it's a "verse". Usually musicians play over the chorus, hence "Take a chorus."

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 5 May 2005 12:09 am

One of the classic lost parts of this type was on
Over The Rainbow.

Some studio naybob thought it was too long for the film,
and now no one knows the song was much longer.

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 5 May 2005 2:19 am

"Rainbow's" verse was indeed beautiful - great Yip Harburg lyric. the late jazz singer Suzanah McCorkle used to include the "lost" verses a lot. The entire Billy Strayhorn standard, Lush Life, always sounded to me like one long verse.

Smiley Roberts · Post by **Smiley Roberts** » 5 May 2005 2:38 am

To expound further,on Donny's posting:

"recitative" - 1.- a type of declamatory singing,with the rhythm & tempo of speech,but uttered in musical tones,used in the prose parts & dialogue of operas & oratorios.

2. - A work or passage in this style.

3. - Music for such passages. - (adj.) having the nature,or in the style or manner of recitative.

(hey Jim,don't blame me. YOUR the one that asked!!)

------------------
<pre> ~ ~
©¿© It don't mean a thang,
mm if it ain't got that twang.
www.ntsga.com</pre>

[This message was edited by Smiley Roberts on 05 May 2005 at 03:44 AM.]

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 5 May 2005 6:25 am

A recitative would be like
Arnold Schoenberg's serial tone row version
of Lord Byron's Ode To Napolian.

Which I suspect few hare have heard...
Moderist classical composers, have very few forumite proponents..
me thinks.

Jim ask the Mrs. she might know it.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 05 May 2005 at 07:27 AM.]

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 5 May 2005 6:34 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Arnold Schoenberg's serial tone row version
of Lord Byron's Ode To Napolian.

Which I suspect few hare have heard...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

David- Most rabbits love Schoenberg, actually. They consider it good date music, evidently

------------------
http://www.johnmcgann.com
Info for musicians, transcribers, technique tips and fun stuff. Joaquin Murphey transcription book, Rhythm Tuneup DVD and more...

[This message was edited by John McGann on 05 May 2005 at 07:36 AM.]

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 5 May 2005 6:40 am

I'm an avid listener of "modern" classical music, if Arnold Schoenberg can be considered modern. In fact, I'm selling my entire CD collection to fund an expansion of my classical library.

Anyone want to trade some CDs?[This message was edited by Mike Neer on 05 May 2005 at 07:48 AM.]

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 5 May 2005 10:05 am

LOL

John you are one of the few I expected...

I have this sudden image of jackrabbits doing the bunny hop
as atonal much modulates demonically in the back ground.
Something from the exile on St Helena verses....[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 05 May 2005 at 11:06 AM.]

Leon Grizzard · Post by **Leon Grizzard** » 5 May 2005 10:25 am

If it's atonal it wouldn't modulate would it?

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 5 May 2005 12:15 pm

Only if it repeats an exact melodic form
on a different starting note.
In which case going up
8 tones then 3 tones, then 8, then 4, might be rather demonic sounding.

Yikes, it's a TOPIC CADENZA [This message was edited by David L. Donald on 05 May 2005 at 01:16 PM.]

John Steele (deceased) · Post by **John Steele (deceased)** » 5 May 2005 1:29 pm

Gershwin referred to it as a vest.
-John

Dr. Hugh Jeffreys · Post by **Dr. Hugh Jeffreys** » 5 May 2005 6:58 pm

There are no hard and fast rules for song writing. There seems to be a follow-the-leader type of behavior in that many songs follow the AABA pattern, but there are forks in the road. Concerti and sonatas don't necessarily have to follow the AABA form, and many don't. They have evolved over the years to have a free-form and cadenza in some cases. One of the biggest changes in POP music (in my opinion) was when Johnny Green (early 1920's) wrote the great Body & Soul: he was first to modulate for the bridge (ie, from 5 flats to 2 sharps). Many writers have followed suit by modulating to a distant key for the bridge. Perhaps many writers are afraid to get away from old habits, but most "HIT" songs are, in some way, DIFFERENT. Nothing says that you must end in the same key in which the song started. Many years ago, melodies did not gravitate to a tonal center as they do now. ----j----