Why can't we buck the system?

Webb Kline · Post by **Webb Kline** » 7 Mar 2005 6:48 pm

You know, most of us are guilty of whining and complaining about country music being dead. Alan Jackson and George Strait sang about Nashville murdering it. Yet, I find that it isn't just country pickers who lament about this; I can't find anyone who likes what is being put out there by the industry.

I've had the good fotune to get together with an old band of mine for some reunion shows over the past year or so. We play all classic country and country gospel. I've never made this much money playing ever. People pack the house to hear REAL country music.

My son, who is a fine musician and singer, was emabarrassed when I told him I was going to be doing this country band reunion. But, when he and his college buddies showed up one night they were blown away. They flat-out dug classic country. The only reason they had hated country was because they had grown up hearing the junk that is marketed today.

I haven't been on the road for a couple of years, but when I left trucking, everybody out there was complaining about how bad country had gotten--not just we old-timers, but even moreso with the kids.

What i am getting at is that no one is going to tell me there is no market for real country music. I refuse to buy that lie. Why can't we do what the hippies did and just buck the system? I remember Jim Fourat, who was with Sony at the time, telling me that they would have jumped at the chance to sign Phish, but they couldn't touch them; they had beaten their system. How? By doing their own marketing, by holding their own concerts and festivals and by printing the permission on every one of their CDs enabling anyone to go out and make as many copies as they wanted for their friends. Phish was commanding 75 to 100 grand for a concert, what CDs they did sell, they made money on and didnt have to buy them back from Sony for 10 or 11 bucks a piece so they had some to sell at their shows. They made money from all their merchandise because THEY managed it. They had their own website and you could buy whatever you wanted on there.

This started a trend which spread like wild-fire. Next thing you know there were festivals like Boneroo and others that rivaled Woodstock 69. And the industry bigwigs couldn't cash in on it.

When I look at what we've done on a small scale, and when I consider all the great music that is out there, much of it being put out by our own forumites, I have a hard time believing that country artists couldn't just walk away from the system and follow in the footsteps of the hippies. Surely, I mean surely, there is a much bigger market for real country music than there is for jambands. Don't get me wrong, I like some of these bands, but when you look at this thing statistically, the numbers of country fans must outweigh jamband fans by at least 50 to 1.

XM radio is beginning to break the mold, but will take a while to make a big impact. But, if everyone brainstormed this thing, and did their part, I can't help but to believe that guys like Bud Carter and Gene Fields would be listed on Wall Street.

Rather than using this as a thread to voice your negativities, why don't we throw our collective ideas on the table and see if some of the more enterprising of us out there can run with it?

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 7 Mar 2005 7:11 pm

Buck the system? The system has already been bucked.
There is more recorded music available now, in every style, than ever before.
The low cost of recording means that anybody with the slightest desire to record music has recorded it.
Cheap CD duplication for those who insist on being paid, and internet music distribution for those who don't, means that anybody with the slightest desire to obtain recorded music has obtained it.

Ernie Renn · Post by **Ernie Renn** » 7 Mar 2005 7:39 pm

Check out: The Nashville Show!

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My best,
Ernie

www.buddyemmons.com[This message was edited by Ernie Renn on 07 March 2005 at 07:39 PM.]

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 7 Mar 2005 7:55 pm

Webb, I think you're on the money here. I do not believe for one second that we, the people, need to be the victims of Madison Ave. I think there's a myth out there that somebody makes stars out of people, and that all you have to do is 'get signed' and your troubles are over. The truth is, it's much more self-promotion plus paying dues.

Bands like Phish, Widespread Panic, and frankly, guys like Robert Randolph, defied the regular rules and made their own. I think self-production, self-distribution, and self-promotion is possible now IF one is sufficiently business-savvy and hard-working. It means logging the miles, doing the hard work, and also avoiding the traps and pitfalls of the music business, which are obviously many.

One of those pitfalls, IMO, is the belief that someone else has got to (and is gonna) do it for you. The web is the great promotional equalizer, IMO. But you've got to have something to promote. Grass roots isn't new. The acid-rock bands in the SF Bay area did it in the late 60s. The punkers set up their own scene in the 70s, it's not just the hippies. When you define your own culture and have lots of adherents, people will seek you out.

Another limiter is the commonly-held belief that somebody else's idea of success is the only one. If what's important is superstardom and adulation, not making a good living making music, they've immediately got you by the grapes. You need to be very secure with yourself to take this approach, but there are living, walking examples. Now, what I'm suggesting is not an easy lifestyle, I rejected it a long time ago, but it's not because I don't think it's possible.

Now what does the real country music culture have that's saleable? IMO, authenticity, emotion, and real human pathos, the same drawing card as the blues, and a set of values that people continue to come back to, again and again. No, not everybody, but LOTS. At some point, most people NEED authenticity and simplicity. Not when everything is going great, not when everybody's young, healthy, and carefree, and the (either real or dreamed-of) BMWs and Dom Perignon are flowing like a gushing oil spout. But when their parents are sick, their job's a drag, their kids are demanding and difficult, and they're beginning to wonder just what they're doing here on planet earth, that's when you have their attention. IMO. Look at the demographics, people my age (50 plus or minus 10 years) in record numbers heading into the 'difficult years', in many ways. You really begin to appreciate the simple, authentic things. Again, IMO.

Earnest, Ernie, you're certainly correct, the system has been 'bucked', to some extent - great music is available. But still, large chunks of the population still can't turn a real country radio station on, and most still hold silly myths about what real country music is. And plenty of fine country musicians can't make a living doing what they do so well right now. Turn on the TV, this is an urban/hip-hop culture right now. IMO.

Webb Kline · Post by **Webb Kline** » 7 Mar 2005 8:56 pm

I agree that the system is being bucked to an extent, but I think we really need to jump on the bandwagon when someone does something worthwhile that's out of the box. Ernie, I am looking forward to the Nashville Show. This is the kind of thing that I am talking about. But, it seems that whenever somebody gets and idea like this, nobody wants to give it the support it needs to get going. It's too easy to roll over and forget about it.

Sometimes I'm tempted to throw a vase throught the TV set when I see some of the stuff on CMT, but I'd be the only one who lost.

Sure there is some great music out there, but you have to understand that it is going to take more than just having it lay around in cyber-space to get the attention of a generation that has been sold an empty shirt with the Country Music logo on it.

Those who do love country, but are not directly involved with it as we are, don't have any clue that any of this stuff is available. Something radical needs to be done in order to restore good music, country or otherwise, to a state of cultural relevancy.

A co-op of musicians and music lovers who develop their own radio and TV networks? Country Music festivals? I don't know the answer and even if we were successful, big media would soon cash in on it with a cheap clone, just as they have in the past.

Dave, you are right that the hippies are not the only ones, they're just the most recent ones to break the rules. Hendrix, Clapton, Zepplin, ELP, guys like that, forced the industry to S.O.G.O.T.P.

I hope that XM, mp3 and other internet options, The Nashville Show, etc., are part of something that will eventually break this pop-culture hypnosis. But something a lot bigger and more public is going to be needed to awaken the masses.

I'm remaining an optimist though. I believe it can and will happen. Proverbs says that people perish for lack of vision, and it certainly seems like country music has lost its vision sometime ago.

Al Carmichael · Post by **Al Carmichael** » 7 Mar 2005 11:08 pm

You are touching on something close to my heart. I've always been a fan of classic country music. I can't tell you how many people that I have spoken with have become disillusioned with what "country" has become. Yet, those same people still love the old, true to the roots type of country music.

I spent 8 years writing for Nashville. What Music Row has done is to become poisoned by the principle of "largest demographic=the most money." I was told the following:

Don't write drinking songs
Don't write cheating songs
Don't write shuffles of any kind
Don't write about death, etc....

Well, that erases about 95% of the songs I loved, LOL!

Basically, the formula is up-tempo pabulum with hooks, aimed at making nobody think or feel too much about anything. Today's "country" music is so hell bent on being clever and obtuse that it has left the real human emotions behind, in a large degree. Granted, there are songs that cut the mustard still--thank God. But, so much of it is such utter crap.

The heart and soul of country is still very much alive in this world. We are the people who have to bring it to those who love it. Webb's testimony about how people are flocking to see his group is proof that the fans are out there.

The answer is to get out there and play the music. Record our own CD's and get this music to the real fans of country music. They are not buying the intellectual clever BS that Music Row is trying to shove down our throats. The big boys from LA and New York who came to Nashville and tried to turn gold into platinum have screwed it up so bad that is embarrassing.

If Webb can get the grassroots thing going, I think I can too. So can a lot of other players who love this music. We are the ice cream vendors and there are a lot of folks out there who would like to be served. The opportunity and time is ripe. I'm putting my classic country croup together and taking it to the streets If enough of us would, we could turn this whole mess around.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 8 Mar 2005 3:34 am

And also..the classics, for example, Together Again..that sort of song..are timeless..they work on ANY Country gig..the new pop sort of Tim McGraw, Chesney tunes have no value past a few months..once the radio heads stop playing them they have no more life...

The Classics so so speak..are the real deal..and it shows everytime time out...

Our set lists are made up of primarily classic tunes from the 60's thru the early 90's with a bunch of AJ, GS ,Merle, Waylon Brad Paisley..etc..these are the tunes that are always requested..

I can't remember the last time anyone asked for a Tim McGraw or Kenny Cheesy tune..or the likes there of......

thank god..

t[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 08 March 2005 at 07:27 AM.]

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 8 Mar 2005 5:07 am

Webb,

The rules of the game are being changed as we speak. There are more alternatives to mainstream corporate "music" than ever before. Don't use CMT as a rule of thumb. Many, many artists and acts live and thrive off the corporate grid. Young people respond positively to classic country whereever I play. Satellite radio and the internet have changed the rules forever.

Corporate America and the FCC took the airwaves from us, let's make sure they don't swipe and control the internet too.

cheers,
Drew

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<pre>Drew Howard - website - Fessy D-10 8/8, Magnatone S-8, N400's, BOSS RV-3</pre>

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 8 Mar 2005 8:42 am

Geeze, for once, a thread filled with wisdom and ideas!

Keep on keepin' on, guys! I want to hear more of this stuff.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 8 Mar 2005 8:55 am

I think everybody's right here, things can be changed, and there are changes in the works. But this movement could easily fall flat on its face from lack of support due to apathy. The corporate music interests have strong motivation to prevent these changes from happening. Just look at the situation now, they control the airwaves almost completely, and can simply dictate what people will listen to, who they will pay for songs/artists/etc., and the FCC stands by and lets this consolidation get tighter and tighter. This is a business planner's dream - you can predict what will sell, 'cause you can shove it down their throat. This isn't just in music, but the whole cultural landscape. Of course, that extreme abuse of power is exactly what is causing the rift with a lot of people. But I don't think this is gonna be that easy to change. It will require a great deal of determination, pro-active effort, and persistence. Drew, don't expect them to give up satellite and internet without a fight, they want it all, and have proven that again and again.

Tony's correct, the corporate musical pablum is only valid in the moment, where the 'classic' music speaks across generations, always has and always will. That goes directly to young people who are willing to be different, but the pressure to conform is very high right now. The influence of corporate media has a very powerful grip. Folks, this is about more than country music, or any kind of music for that matter. We are fighting for nothing less than the soul of our children and grandchildren. Of course, all of this IMO.

Webb Kline · Post by **Webb Kline** » 8 Mar 2005 9:25 am

Al Carmichael nailed it. They've sucked the real-life experience that made country so popular right out of the music. I might sound like a hypocrite to some, being a preacher and thinking that there needs to be more cheatin,drinkin and dyin songs, but nothing could be further from the truth the way I see it. People need to lay the cards of their messed up lives and relationships on the table and deal with them, not pretend that none of this stuff goes on or matters to them. The church has become just as bad at sweeping problems under the rug as the record industry has.

People need something they can relate to. They can't relate to some ethereal pop star singing about fantasies. Life is a lot more of a bitch than a beach.

Dave, keep that prophet of doom stuff coming because as much as we need vision, we need to reckon with the realities of the "enemy" who has stolen the heartbeat of our music.

Great ideas everybody.[This message was edited by Webb Kline on 08 March 2005 at 01:54 PM.]

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 8 Mar 2005 12:07 pm

The heart and soul of country is still very much alive in this world.

That's 'cause country music is about real life, pinein' over loves and lost loves, earnin' a livin', raisin' the kids, gettin' rowdy & raisin' hell, payin' bills, fixin' cars, chasin' women, goin' fast, takin' it easy, missin' momma, growin' up & growin' older, & once in a while, maybe, drinkin'.
It don't get more real than that I guess.

I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess. (Red Green)

Larry Robbins · Post by **Larry Robbins** » 8 Mar 2005 2:57 pm

I agree with you fellers!In my area there are now three local FM stations that play Country Music.Two of them play "Todays"but have started playing a LOT of Classic Country as well.And the other plays Classic Country AND Western 24/7!!!

A lot of the local clubs are doing away with the D.Jays'
and hireing local acts again.Others of you have vioced similer events in other threads.Country Music is on an upswing again but we ALL have to get off our butts and support it! Get out to your local pubs and support your local bands! The next group you hear there might be you!!!
Call your local country stations and tell them to start playing some Classic Country once in a while, or you are going tell everyone not to tune them in or support there sponsers!PUSH BACK!!

MAMMA,TRUCKS,PRISON,DRINKING,CHEATING,LOST
THE FARM,DOG DIED,SIMPLE DOWN HOME,POOR FOLK, Country AND Western Music!!
"three chords and the truth"[This message was edited by Larry Robbins on 08 March 2005 at 05:19 PM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 8 Mar 2005 4:16 pm

Webb wrote "I can't find anyone who likes what is being put out there by the industry."

How many 20 to 34 year old women have you talked to? That's the demographic that Nashville is targeting. That's who shows up at every "new country" concert I've been to recently. They seem to like it a lot.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 8 Mar 2005 5:09 pm

Part of the problem is our own fault, too. We don't want to travel an hour to see a good local band. We don't want to go into a bar. We can't stand smoke. We want only one kind of music (Ray Price shuffles or Bakersfield Owens). We don't want to pay a cover charge. We'd rather listen to our old records. The band is too loud. The band doesn't have a steel. There's plenty of excuses used by fully half of the classic country audiences.

The bottom line is, if you don't support your local bands...there soon won't be any local bands.

So go out and see 'em!

Buy a CD!

Tell your friends!

Buy another CD!

I probably buy 25 indie CD's for every one "major label" CD I buy, and I'd rather go to a local club than a "big-star" concert. The way I look at it, the little guy needs it more than the millionaire singers and multi-millionaire big label executives.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 8 Mar 2005 6:04 pm

Webb, I don't want to be just a 'prophet of doom', I don't think we're doomed at all. I just think it's easy to underestimate what we're up against, and that can be a fatal error. Part of the problem is "them", but part of the problem is "us", IMO.

I agree that sucking the real-life out of music is a huge part of the problem. I don't think it's hypocritical at all for a preacher to encourage people to face reality. One can only deal with problems after one has faced them squarely. As a society, we're big on what I call 'happy talk', you see/hear it everywhere. One is branded as 'negative' to be any other way, but I argue that it is emphatically not "being negative" to try to call things as they are. The media has always been about fantasy, to some extent. That's probably healthy, in its place, but it's not healthy to completely retreat from reality.

What I said in my first post is that different demographic groups tend to have different priorities. The baby boom generation is heading into the 'difficult reality' phase of life, and is a prime audience for what I call 'authentic music'. We've had (and continue to have) dreams - some worked, some didn't - but it's a reflective time where many of us try to come to grips with our lives. It's not hard to understand that younger people have a different attitude. For typical young, healthy 20-34-year-olds, the majority of life is ahead of them. They're focused on their bright future, not their problems, especially when they go out for entertainment. But the entertainment industry is being unbelievably boneheaded to think that they're the only ones who care about entertainment such as music. For the last 50 years, the entire culture has become more and more obsessively youth-oriented, but I think everyone's gonna get a rude shock when this huge boomer demographic bulge starts retiring en masse and have enough time on their hands to really start to make some noise. But we had better start to flex some economic muscle or they're going to continue to ignore us.

I don't object to people being able to listen to any music they want to. If that's Country, fine. Hip-hop, OK. Blues, Rock, Jazz, Classical, whatever. But I do object to an effective monopoly of the 'media source' having the power to withold any groups' interests. And without intervention from a grass-roots effort like we're talking about, I believe that's where we're headed. I don't necessarily believe it's any 'evil plan', it's just sort of the mass-market approach to marketing, get 70% of the market (mean plus or minus one std. deviation) with 30% of the effort. The goal is always strictly the bottom line, right? "You mean you're over 6 feet tall? Well, we just don't have any pants to fit you, sir. The highest our inseams go is 32"." It's fine that some stores cater to the 'normal-sized' person, but there'd be a helluva problem if there was nowhere for other people to find clothes. There's no problem with clothes, because any chump who wants to can open a clothing store. Not so in the broadcasting business. The FCC has created an oligopoly by approving consolidation of almost the entire broadcast business into a few companies. They've singlehandedly reversed the work of the last 50 years to spread this out. This is going to take some real work to change, IMO.

So, Donny's right, we need to support local bands who play the kind of music we like. No excuses, if it's important, we need to do it. If we show them we will come, some places will even go no-smoking on gigs like this. We have absolutely zero no-smoking laws in clubs here, but several places now feature no-smoking when promoting a blues, jazz, or classic country show. But we have to TELL them what we need, and then SHOW UP and PAY THE MAN when they do what we ask. I almost never buy big-label CDs, but there is tons of very cool indy and small-label stuff coming out. The entertainment business largely writes older people off. They need to see we can still flex economic muscle.

Webb Kline · Post by **Webb Kline** » 8 Mar 2005 10:55 pm

Dave, great insights. I concur. I wouldn't expect you think my position hypocritical, but, of course, there are those who do. A lot of my peers take a rather gnostic approach to life, in my opinion, by separating the spiritual from the physical, and I think it is a huge mistake. None of can escape reality despite our cultural influences trying to take us there. I've never seen the value of a spirituality that attempts to render the human experience null and void.

But, our society has become fat and lazy and no longer wants to work for anything. It's a lot easier to find other interests when the ones which once held our hearts betray our affections. Part of the blame falls on us because of our own complacency. That is perhaps a greater threat to us than big media.

But even if there remain but a few of us who dare to dream and believe that we can beat the system, it will not negate the nobility of the task. If for nothing else the quest is good for our souls.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 9 Mar 2005 5:42 am

Drew Howard

Corporate America and the FCC took the airwaves from us, let's make sure they don't swipe and control the internet too.

Dave Mudgett

The corporate music interests have strong motivation to prevent these changes from happening… they control the airwaves almost completely… and the FCC stands by and lets this consolidation get tighter and tighter… don't expect them to give up satellite and internet without a fight, they want it all, and have proven that again and again.

There are vast hordes of eager young men and women packed chock-full into skyscrapers all across America who are employed by the mega-corporations with the sole purpose of figuring out new ways to take your money away from you and give it to the mega-corporations, and they are frighteningly good at what they do. If they can’t hypnotize you with your TV, turning your brain into mush with an unceasing barrage of sexual frenzy, 4th-grade fart jokes and relentless moronism and then, once you’re down for the count, injecting your brain with slithering subliminal messages of throbbing material-lust causing you, nay, forcing you to tear shrieking out of the house to blast away your hard-earned money buying a bunch of crap you don’t even want and surely can’t possibly need, if this doesn’t work (damn those non-TV watchers anyways!) they are not at all above filing lawsuits, bribing regulators and purchasing politicians (not at all a hard thing to do these days, sorry to say) in order to get what they want: total control over your mind and your money.

The FCC appoints board members based on their “expertise”, and guess who the experts are on communications? Excerpts from: http://www.fcc.gov/commissioners/

Prior to her FCC appointment, Commissioner Abernathy was Vice President of Public Policy at BroadBand Office Communications, Inc.

Mr. Copps served until January 2001 as Assistant Secretary of Commerce for Trade Development at the U.S. Department of Commerce. In that role, Mr. Copps worked to improve market access and market share for nearly every sector of American industry, including information technologies, telecommunications, aerospace, automotive, environmental technologies, pharmaceuticals, chemicals, textiles, service industries, and tourism. Mr. Copps devoted much of his time to building private sector-public sector partnerships to enhance our nation’s success in the global economy.

Before joining the FCC, Martin was a Special Assistant to the President for Economic Policy. He served on the Bush-Cheney Transition Team and was Deputy General Counsel for the Bush campaign.

The way these corporations do business is, they make projections based on what they think they can squeeze out of the people (YOU and ME) and then their business either “outperforms” or “underperforms” their projections. When you’re not watching MTV or CMT or CBS or buying DVD’s from Blockbuster or CD’s from a Viacom-owned record company or listening to an Infinity Radio-owned station (2nd largest chain in the country behind Clear Channel), the folks at the Westinghouse/CBS/Viacom monolith think that you are stealing money out of their pocket. They’re already counting it as their money, see? If you get your news from the internet instead of from CNN, the Washington Post and Time magazine, and you’re not watching your movies on TBS, TCM and HBO, you’re stealing from Time/Warner/AOL! If you’re getting your music from somewhere other than Sony/BMG/Arista/RCA, you’re screwing them! And it’s criminal, and these large corporations can get vicious when they’re being victimized by dishonest snakes like you and me.

General Electric (NBC) donated $493,366 to political campaigns in 2004.
Sony Corp of America - $514,443.
Clear Channel Communications - $896,076.
Walt Disney Co (ABC) - $934,636.
Viacom Inc (CBS) - $1,245,04.
National Cable & Telecommunications Assn - $1,279,242.
Time Warner - $2,502,253.

How much did you donate?

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 9 Mar 2005 6:47 am

$25. Doesn't that buy me a seat at the table?

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 9 Mar 2005 7:17 am

David- isn't there also a down side to this?

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http://www.johnmcgann.com
Info for musicians, transcribers, technique tips and fun stuff. Joaquin Murphey transcription book, Rhythm Tuneup DVD and more...

Webb Kline · Post by **Webb Kline** » 9 Mar 2005 10:03 am

David Mason: ...injecting your brain with slithering subliminal messages of throbbing material-lust causing you, nay, forcing you to tear shrieking out of the house to blast away your hard-earned money buying a bunch of crap you don’t even want and surely can’t possibly need,
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Meanwhile, The child sex-slave industry in Thailand forces hundreds of thousands of young kids to prostitute themselves 100 times a month just to break even on survival. These kids are continually beaten until they submit to prostitution. Hundreds of thousands of homeless children in Belarus sleep under the streets in sewers in the winter, coming out each day to sniff glue because it staves off their hunger pains so they, too, can go out and prostitute themselves--as young as 7 or 8 year olds--to keep from starving to death.

Off topic? Hardly. The entertainment industry has dulled the public's senses to any sense of reality whatsoever. Is it any wonder that other countries are beginning to despise us so, when they look at this picture?

I still say there is so much truth in what Al Carmichael said about them doing away with cheatin', drinkin' and dyin' songs. More and more we live in a "feel good" society that is futily attempting to mask ever-increasing pain and heartache with fantasy and indifference.

To think that we can know everything about Brittany Spear's life, yet are completely ignorant of some of the atrocious humanitarian abuses going on around the world is a testament to the cruel, blind greed of those who control the airwaves.

Tony Campolo once stood in front of a church and said, "35,000 children died last night of malnutrition and malnutrition related diseases and no one here gives a sh**." (Notice that I am not allowed to say sh** here) Tony then went on to say the there were far more people present who were incensed that he had just said sh** than the fact that 35,000 children had died last night.

The point is, there is probably no more powerful tool in the world to evoke change than the one which God has given us in our musical abilities. Yet, big corporations have hijacked this tool and have been using it, not only for their own greedy gain, but to numb the senses and hearts of a whole generation.

I don't know what to do about it aside from spilling my heart about the problem and doing the little I can in my own small sphere of influence, but I can't help but to believe that together, we can claim the true heart of music back from those who have taken it away, and perhaps we can even put more purpose behind it than ever before.

All I know is that something has to change.

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 9 Mar 2005 1:25 pm

If you want to know what hell looks like, watch a Britney Spears video. I find nothing pleasing about the glamourous imagery that the entertainment industry is throwing at us these days. The type of society depicted in Aldous Huxley's novel 'Brave New World' has become a few steps closer to reality.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 9 Mar 2005 3:31 pm

Let's stay on the subject of music, please.

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<img align=left src="http://b0b.com/b0bxicon.gif" border="0"> Bobby Lee
-b0b- quasar@b0b.com 
System Administrator

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 9 Mar 2005 6:24 pm

Sorry Bob, I should have elaborated on my statement. I really meant that the quality of popular music has suffered, especially since the beginning of the video era, where the presentation of glamourous imagery is now more important than making music.

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 9 Mar 2005 8:21 pm

When I was a kid, we had 3 tv channels. There were a few radio stations but they pretty much played the same thing. Walter Cronkite could stop a war. Talk about a monoply! Today there are so many stations I don't even know what to make of it. There is a station dedicated to country music, for petes sake, an entire channel (who would have thought of that a 10,. 15 years ago). I listen to just about any kind of music I want on the internet and it can get pretty obscure. I had hawaiian music from hawaii on the day.

There will always be a popular music aimed towards young people. They have the most time, the most disposible income (I have kids, a mortgage, etc). It was always thus. I think there is a lot of great music being played today: I've been listening to the Kruger brothers and saw them at Joe Val with was sold out. I can download their music to my Ipod and take it where ever I go. I saw Chris Thiele and Edgar Meyers a few weeks ago do a duet at Carnegie Hall. Sold out. I go out and play live 3 or 4 nights a week. No money, just jamming with close friends at a friendly bar.

I guess I don't see what the problem is.

As for the rest, we've always had some turmoil going on. The big band era couldn't prevent the holocaust. Ragtime couldn't prevent a pandemic. Millions starved in China during the Great Leap Forward. Millions killed in Russia during Stalen. Name your period - pick your popular music - there was a masacre going on somewhere. If it wasn't the Indians, it was Pol Pot. I'm a Buddhist, and I think he summed it up pretty well 5,000 years ago: The world is suffering and everything changes. If it is good, don't worry, it will be bad soon. If it is bad, don't worry, it will be good soon. The only constant is change.

And as far as music is concerned, nothing was a bad as the 80's and people playing one note synthesizer music. No wait, nothing was worse than the 70's and disco. No wait, nothing was worse than the 60's and that awful bubble gum music. No wait...

[This message was edited by Bill McCloskey on 09 March 2005 at 08:37 PM.][This message was edited by Bill McCloskey on 09 March 2005 at 08:39 PM.]