Ever played pedal steel on a standard guitar?

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 3 Mar 2005 10:31 am

I just did my 2nd gig with a pedal guitar. It's a solid body electric that I put a raised nut and tuned to open E chord. I have a set of Bigsby Palm Pedals which raises the 2nd string B to C# and the 3rd string G# to A. I saw a guy named Peter Stroud on a video concert with Sheryl Crow doing this and he was getting a great sound and effect doing the same thing. I think this style of playing is an untapped source for a lot of good music. I took my guitar to a couple of gigs where I normally do both lead and steel and it worked great. What was nice was I only had to take one amp and box of effects and just an A/B switch for the guitars. I'll still continue to take my steel on "steel only" gigs but who knows what might happen in the future. I really see large use for this type of playing in rock and blues and even a lot of country things. Has anyone else ever tried this? Have a good 'un....JH in Va.

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Livin' in the Past and Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 3 Mar 2005 5:01 pm

I had seen this being done quite frequently during the late fifties and early sixtie when someone wanted a makeshift dobro sound.

For the life of me, I cannot remember the named country singer's Fender player who did this on their tours; however, he had his Fender on his lap at least four or five times during their show.

Maybe one of the other older dudes in here can help me with a name.

Jerry Warner · Post by **Jerry Warner** » 3 Mar 2005 9:53 pm

HOW IN HE HELL CAN A ELECTRIC GUITAR SOUND LIKE A PEDAL STEEL BY BENDING THE STRINGS, MAYBE SO BUT DOES IT SOUND LIKE BUDDY OR THE OTHER PRO'S THAT PLAY A PEDAL STEEL, I THINK NOT SO KEEP DREAMING ON THIS CRAP.

Geoff Brown · Post by **Geoff Brown** » 3 Mar 2005 11:44 pm

Jaysus, Jerry W.

I read 2 threads in a row, and see you yellin' and carrying on. Relax, nobody wants to see ya blow a gasket, especially over something that doesn't amount to a hill of beans.
Turn off your caps button and stop giving people a hard time.

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 4 Mar 2005 4:40 am

Les, that'd probably be the Late Great "Thumbs" Carlisle. Thumbs used a palm pedal for a while. He use an Eb open tuning as I remember and also a capo but he didn't do the slide thing. He'd fret "overhanded" with it laying on his lap...JH

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Livin' in the Past and Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 4 Mar 2005 7:14 am

I have benders on the B and G strings of my Tele, but I tune it to standard, and both benders raise the strings a whole tone.

I have found all sorts of uses for the benders. These include using them to play rock, blues and, in conjunction with a wah wah pedal, R&B.

I think that tuning the guitar to open E and duplicating steel guitar changes, limits one to thinking and playing like a steel player.

By tuning the guitar to standard, and setting the palm pedal to raise the 3rd string a whole time, you may lose some of the steel licks, but it opens up a lot of other possibilities. [This message was edited by Mike Perlowin on 04 March 2005 at 01:41 PM.]

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 4 Mar 2005 1:21 pm

Jerry, you hit the nail on the head. I remember now. He used to put little things like sewing thimbles on his fingers and go to it.

The first time I saw him do this was on a show with Little Jimy Dickens & The Wright Brothers.

Jeez, I had no idea my memory was fading that badly.

db · Post by db » 4 Mar 2005 7:30 pm

Hey Jerry,
There is more here . . .
But, Still not the gold mine!

I do not understand why there isn't a flood of responses to this theme.
It is the "BIG CROSS - OVER" !
That links standard guitar to Pedal Steel !
Let's find the bridge.
db
Oh! I almost forgot . . .
I have to add my I.D. !
Like you don't know who I am.

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Dan Balde
U-12/8&5, S-7/D 3&1, S-6/E,A & G3
[This message was edited by db on 04 March 2005 at 07:36 PM.]

db · Post by db » 4 Mar 2005 7:41 pm

I am always amazed a the hostility that arises about any new perspective.
WHAT IS THAT ALL ABOUT!? ! ?
No one is cutting your nuts off here!
P.S. is P.S. . . .
Something else, is something else!
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Dan Balde
U-12/8&5, S-7/D 3&1, S-6/E,A & G3
[This message was edited by db on 04 March 2005 at 07:48 PM.]

Les Pierce · Post by **Les Pierce** » 4 Mar 2005 9:12 pm

We all know that a standard guitar will never do what a steel can, nor will a steel do what a standard guitar can.

There are certain licks and phrases that might fool you, but those are just tricks. Guitar players do a steel bend or two, and steel players try to do a guitar lick or two. So what?

How come nobody goes ballistic when a steel player tries to cop a banjo or dobro lick? It's no big deal.

As for the Bigsby Palm Pedals. I had a set back in the '70's, and found they were in the way and I could not "block" with my right hand. (Yes, guitar players do "palm" blocking too). I never could get a handle on using them, although the bends were fun to play with.

Les

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Strat,Tele
Dekley S-10

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 5 Mar 2005 9:24 am

I don't think anyone has gone ballistic on this topic. About all that was asked, "had anyone ever used a regular guitar on their lap while a slide of some sort."

The truth of the matter is, there has been more than one guitarist move his guitar from his shoulder to his lap. Hell, I used to rest my old Gibson on my lap quite frequently and use a knife handle as a slide. At the time, I never even thought of owning a steel nor was I trying to duplicate a steel guitar sound. About all it boiled down to was that it was just another way to play the damn thing.

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(I am not right all of the time but I sure like to think I am!)

Al Carmichael · Post by **Al Carmichael** » 5 Mar 2005 10:10 am

I had the hipshot device on my Tele for a while, but I ended up preferring to do the steel bends by hand. It didn't really sound like a pedal steel, but it could evoke some of that vibe. Its what it is.

I was first turned on to the sound by Clarence White, who used it on a song or two from Younger Than Yesterday. "Girl with No Name" was the tune, I think. I absolutely loved it, but I didn't know he was using a b bender.

In the end, its all about the music. I certainly have no problem with this idea, but I'm gonna stick with trying to conquer the steel for now. Its all good!

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 7 Mar 2005 4:44 am

The way I'm looking at this is as another weapon in my playing arsenal. It's not meant to replace my steel or my guitar but another way of playing "music" which I think is an untapped resource in which there are a lot of good things waiting to happen! I am thinking of setting up another guitar in standard tuning without the raised nut but with a heavier string gauge than I normally use and do slide, steel, and regular playing on it. I think that's what Mike Perlowin's into with his approach. I've tried all sorts of string benders but for finger slide the Bigsby Palm Pedal can't be beat. On the other types it requires moving the neck with your left hand which impairs the slide action. As far as the Bigsby getting in the way, I don't think it does! I've had them on guitars since around '72 or '73 on various types and never had any problem with muting with the palm of your hand. The only guitars that don't have enough room behind the bridge that I've used are Fenders but they can be used also. Dan Balde has a unit for Teles and Strats which features the fold away levers which is pretty cool......JH

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Livin' in the Past and Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

[This message was edited by Jerry Hayes on 07 March 2005 at 04:48 AM.]

db · Post by db » 10 Mar 2005 8:25 pm

No mater how inventively & differently you take the "guitar" . . . .
It is still considered just a "guitar"!
It could be a "Pedal-Steel", "Pedal-Slide", "Lap-Steel" player. . .
But, you know at the "Blues-Jams" with the "Vintage-Guitar-Natzizes" perspective will place you "somewhere else"!
They say that I am just "Playing a Guitar"!

If "Moon Dance" was the tune . . .
Would they have the Sax player "Sit-It-Out" . . .?

If "Green Onions" was the tune, would they make the organ player "Sit-It-Out"!

But, they make me "Sit-Out" on all the tunes that feature "Slide-Guitar" & / or "Pedal-Steel" signitures!

They say. . . "If it's "Guitar" . . .
It’s just a guitar !"
There is already a "Guitar-Player" up there!
You are OUT !

How do you impress upon these "non-musical" folk about what the differences are about the execution of music!

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Dan Balde
U-12/8&5, S-7/D 3&1, S-6/E,A & G3
[This message was edited by db on 10 March 2005 at 08:57 PM.]

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 11 Mar 2005 11:47 am

I'm with you on this one Dan, it's amazing how many close minded people there are out there about new things. I really see a lot of potential in this way of playing....JH

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Livin' in the Past and Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Al Carmichael · Post by **Al Carmichael** » 11 Mar 2005 10:33 pm

I just remembered seeing a guy in Nashville one time--I knew his name but it escapes me--played on some George Jones stuff--I believe "He Stopped Loving Her Today" among others. He was incredible. He had a guitar with some cables that worked a changer on his guitar--all connected to some floor pedals. He had something very cool happening--a cross between the bending strings of a steel plus standard guitar. A friend attended a Jeff Newman seminar and brought back some live cassette tapes of the guy. Totally blew my mind! I'll try to get his name and post it.

ray qualls · Post by **ray qualls** » 12 Mar 2005 12:21 am

Al, that was probably Phil Baugh playing that guitar. Him and Buddy played together a lot. I got to see them at Scottys Convention one year and they were great. Ray Qualls

Al Carmichael · Post by **Al Carmichael** » 12 Mar 2005 11:12 am

Ray--Thats the guy--Phil Baugh! I wonder if he ever did a solo record? I'd love to get a copy if he did. He was an amazing player--with the pedals and without.

db · Post by db » 13 Mar 2005 6:52 pm

All of the "Cable-System" makers have "dropped off of the planet"!
The "MacKenzie String Pull System" (spelling) was the last one and now is gone!
I would like to be able to refer customers to companies that make this type of assembly.
The closest is the "Higgins System".
They make a single-string, pedal actuated system.
I would like to see more postings and information concerning this type of system!

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Dan Balde
U-12/8&5, S-7/D 3&1, S-6/E,A & G3
[This message was edited by db on 13 March 2005 at 07:00 PM.]

Dan Sawyer · Post by **Dan Sawyer** » 13 Mar 2005 8:55 pm

Those of you who think Palm Pedals get in the way are probably thinking of the original units. Don Balde is now making a much better unit that will fit almost anything.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 14 Mar 2005 8:42 am

Everyone that I ever heard using one of these palm pedal units was playing pretty far out of tune. It was actually embarrasing to listen to it.

Les Anderson · Post by **Les Anderson** » 14 Mar 2005 9:50 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Kevin Hatton wrote:

Everyone that I ever heard using one of these palm pedal units was playing pretty far out of tune. It was actually embarrassing to listen to it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jeez kevin, I always thought that’s how a steel player was expected to start out their careers.

db · Post by db » 14 Mar 2005 8:57 pm

"For every one adventurous bold step forward . . .
There is a multitude of naysayers that will try to bring you down!"

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Dan Balde
U-12/8&5, S-7/D 3&1, S-6/E,A & G3

[This message was edited by db on 14 March 2005 at 08:59 PM.]

Chris Scruggs · Post by **Chris Scruggs** » 14 Mar 2005 10:42 pm

The last time I was at Scotty's Music, Don Curtis had a 6 string lap steel he had made. It was tuned to E9 like this: (hi to lo) E, B, G#, F#, E, D. It had a Bigsby with two palm pedals, one to raise B to C#, and one to raise G# to A. these were also the same string gauges as C6, so he could retune it to play standard non-pedal stuff.

It was very cool, and he really had it down. If I ever used a bigsby palm pedal, it would be in that fashion.

CS[This message was edited by Chris Scruggs on 14 March 2005 at 10:46 PM.]

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 15 Mar 2005 10:08 am

I have a B-bender on my Telecaster, and I really love it. I don't play many pedal steel cliches, since my steel's sitting right there! But I love what you can do with chords and blues... Fun! I've always really loved playing blues and rock on pedal steel as well. I've never really gotten the mentality that "this guitar is only for this kind of music"... it's all music isn't it?

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Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com