Pedals or Scruggs tuners...?

Terry Edwards · Post by **Terry Edwards** » 26 Jul 2004 5:45 pm

...which came first? I read somewhere that Scruggs tuners and pedals added to steel guitar occurred fairly close in time back in the 50's. If so, which one influenced the other? I am almost afraid to ask this question for fear the answer might mean that pedal steel has a B@njo in it's bloodline!

Tell me it isn't so!!

t

David Nugent · Post by **David Nugent** » 26 Jul 2004 6:17 pm

Earl Scruggs added D-tuners of his own design to his banjo in the late '40's. If you see any photos of Earl from that period, that is what is hiding under that metal box on the peghead. It is my understanding that the idea of adding pedals to steel guitars came more from the pedal harp than from other sources.

Garry Vanderlinde · Post by **Garry Vanderlinde** » 26 Jul 2004 7:59 pm

According to the Bear Family Records recordings of Flatt & Scruggs 1948-1959, on October 24, 1951 Earl recorded his first instrumental for the Columbia label, "Earl's Breakdown." In it he introduced a technique he developed as a lad, playing with his brother Horace: adjusting the tuning of his banjo in the middle of a tune. Its popularity led Earl to devise a mechanism for raising and lowering the pitch of two strings on his banjo independently of their tuning peg - the so-called Scruggs pegs or tuners, which he used on a number of other songs in the next few years.

According to the recording "Webb Pierce-King of the Honky-Tonk, from the original Decca Masters, 1952-1959," he recorded "Slowly" with Bud Isaacs on November 29, 1953, a full two years after Earl's recording.

Hans Holzherr · Post by **Hans Holzherr** » 26 Jul 2004 8:20 pm

I thought the pedals were added in 1948. As your post suggests, Scruggs didn't yet have the mechanism at the time he recorded Earl's Breakdown.

Hans (steel guitarist and banjo player

)

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 27 Jul 2004 3:33 am

No contest here! Pedals on guitars go back to the '30s.

Jerry Hayes · Post by **Jerry Hayes** » 27 Jul 2004 5:10 am

At one time I had an old B@njo which had some early type D-tuners on it. They were lever type devices situated between the tuning pegs on the headstock. They would push the string sideways and you'd tune them to pitch that way. When you'd flip the levers sideways you'd lower the 2nd string B to A and the 3rd string G to F# creating a D tuning. These had a screw adjustment on each of them to fine tune them. The only drawback I saw was that you had to have two holes drilled in the headstock between the pegs and Keith/Scruggs type tuners use the same hole which is actually better as you don't deface the instrument. However I liked the way the old ones worked better.

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 27 Jul 2004 8:00 am

I do not know which came first:

1. Bud Isaacs and "Slowly"

2. Earl Scruggs and the "Scruggs' tuners"

I do know that long before Earl changed the tuning of two of his banjo strings while playing, pedal steel guitars existed.

However, I know of NO case where PSG's made use of the "moving half tone/full tone" pair of strings like what Earl And Bud used.

Whether Bud was inspired by Earl and tried to emulate Earl, or whether it was the other way around, OR neither, I have no idea.

All I know is, I love that sound done on either. And I thank Jesus for these two pioneers in the evolution of what has meant so much to soo many.

May Jesus richly bless both of these fine players; and may he bless all of you always,

carl

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 27 Jul 2004 8:13 am

This is just rumor,but I was told many years ago that Alvino Rey had pedals on his guitar and also used a "voice-box" device. I was told that he had a little dummy that sat on his guitar and he created the dummys words with the voicebox.
The first time I heard the voicebox effect was when Pete Drake used it on a recording.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 27 Jul 2004 9:04 am

Earl used the tuners to actually change chords on his banjo. He was not using them to play a moving tone against a static tone, as we associate with pedal steel.

Hans Holzherr · Post by **Hans Holzherr** » 27 Jul 2004 10:09 am

He used the tuners just like we do in single-note lines.

Hans<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Hans Holzherr on 27 July 2004 at 11:17 AM.]</p></FONT>

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 27 Jul 2004 10:21 am

As far as I can remember, Carl was right about new use of the A -B pedals. I think at first Bud Issacs had both changes on one pedal. Then I gues Buddy Emmons and Jimmy Day split them and really made it take off.

As far as Pedals go, I remember Alvino Rey had the first pedals in about 1938 on his non pedal D8, then went to his Gibson Electra-Harp later, which he helped develp.
He did the taling thing, with Yvonne King back stage mouthing the words through a tub or voice box.and run it through his guitar.....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Garry Vanderlinde · Post by **Garry Vanderlinde** » 27 Jul 2004 6:24 pm

Hans you are right, Earl recorded Earl's Breakdown entirely by ear without the tuner mechanism. I don't know how I could have forgotten that

. I also remember reading somewhere that he was inspired by the Webb Pierce recording of Slowly. I don't know if it's true or not, but I'll research my resources.

Jennings Ward · Post by **Jennings Ward** » 27 Jul 2004 7:08 pm

Take a KAZOO AND PUT A KAPOO on it and it will sound better than a BANGER.....WHY? IT WILL STAY IN TUNE... No need for banger patles............Jennings... Just play steel for the sound of it.

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EMMONS D10 10-10 profex 2 deltafex ne1000 pv1000, pv 31 bd eq, +

Eddie D.Bollinger · Post by **Eddie D.Bollinger** » 28 Jul 2004 7:56 am

Mr. Carl said it perfectly.
Either one flips MY switch.

Eddie

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 28 Jul 2004 10:05 am

Topics about other instruments do not belong in the Pedal Steel section of the Forum. Moved to 'Music'.

Garry Vanderlinde · Post by **Garry Vanderlinde** » 2 Aug 2004 7:25 pm

Topics about pedal steels do not belong in the Pedal Steel section of the Forum if they include banjos?