Country stereotypes

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 4 Jul 2004 10:56 pm

With all the griping I’ve encountered regarding ‘new’ country music, I decided to throw in my two cents worth.

What I dislike about all forms of popular music are the stereotypes that characterize each genre. In no particular order, here are some of the stereotypes in country music that irritate me the most:

1) Gender stereotypes. When female country singers try to be ‘honky-tonk angels’ and male singers try to be ‘good ol’ boys’. I believe this may have started with Dolly Parton and Waylon Jennings.

2) The South. Being born or raised in the Southern States (or in close proximity) seems like a prerequisite to become a country singer. And if the singer does not come from the South (or outside the United States), he or she will sing songs that are about places in the South to sound more ‘country’.

3) The southern drawl. In all my years of listening to country music, it sounds as though the southern drawl is getting heavier. Randy Travis and Reba Macintyre are good examples, and it seems like a lot of newer singers have followed suit. Even singers that don’t speak with a drawl will ‘put it on’ just to sound more like ‘cowboys’.

4) Born again Christians. When superstar country singers appear on the Grand Ole Opry and sing ‘gospel’ songs. But Jesus said “No one can be the slave of two masters; he will hate one and love the other; he will be loyal to one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.”

5) Drinking, broken hearts, and cheating. Well-worn yet timeless topics for country music lyrics.

6) Steel guitar. I don’t mind good steel playing in some country songs, but it really gets on my nerves when steel guitar is added just to make a song sound ‘country’.

7) The Telecaster. There are hundreds of makes and models of electric guitars out there that sound as good or better, yet they don’t have the ‘look’.

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 4 Jul 2004 11:18 pm

.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 08:16 PM.]

Robbie Bossert · Post by **Robbie Bossert** » 4 Jul 2004 11:45 pm

1) Gender stereotypes. When female country singers try to be ‘honky-tonk angels’ and male singers try to be ‘good ol’ boys’. I believe this may have started with Dolly Parton and Waylon Jennings.

A) The female singers I've been hearing try to sound like anything BUT Honky-Tonk or country.I wish that I could find a station that played Honky-Tonk music of any kind.....

2) The South. Being born or raised in the Southern States (or in close proximity) seems like a prerequisite to become a country singer. And if the singer does not come from the South (or outside the United States), he or she will sing songs that are about places in the South to sound more ‘country’.

A) Haggard, Buck Owens, Dwight Yokam, Wynn Stewart, etc....would disagree with this observation.

3) The southern drawl. In all my years of listening to country music, it sounds as though the southern drawl is getting heavier. Randy Travis and Reba Macintyre are good examples, and it seems like a lot of newer singers have followed suit. Even singers that don’t speak with a drawl will ‘put it on’ just to sound more like ‘cowboys’.

A) People are products of their environment I'm sure that if they hung out up there in Canada long enough they'd sound like dopey Frenchmen Eh? Know what I'm talkin' "aboot"?

4) Born again Christians. When superstar country singers appear on the Grand Ole Opry and sing ‘gospel’ songs. But Jesus said “No one can be the slave of two masters; he will hate one and love the other; he will be loyal to one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.”

A) Some people actually still believe in the Almighty and his teachings and are proud to wear it on their sleeves. Just because a person chose to make show business as their way of making a living, doesn't mean that they're a slave to a second god. It's true that a percentage of performers make a few bucks. However, it's also true that most entrainers are barely eking out a living.

5) Drinking, broken hearts, and cheating. Well-worn yet timeless topics for country music lyrics.

A) Adult themes for adult listeners. BRING IT BACK!

6) Steel guitar. I don’t mind good steel playing in some country songs, but it really gets on my nerves when steel guitar is added just to make a song sound ‘country’.

A) I agree with this statement. Lotta' padding goin' on

7) The Telecaster. There are hundreds of makes and models of electric guitars out there that sound as good or better, yet they don’t have the ‘look’.

A) It don't mean a thang' if it ain't got that twang!

RObbie Bossert

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 5 Jul 2004 12:16 am

Dolly, a honky-tonk angel?.. you'd be a decade late and definately the wrong gal for that one.
Do you know what a honky-tonk angel is?

John Floyd · Post by **John Floyd** » 5 Jul 2004 1:50 am

I seriously Doubt If some of you understand very much about which you have written.

I'm sick of people with very little or no qualifications trying to change Country Music. Its a Southern Music and people in the North need to get used to it and quit tampering with it.
Are you aware that Country music started in the Southern US mostly from people of Irish heritage in the appalachian area. Its Sound and Drawl is Real Country Music, its part of the territory. Get used to it!

In my opinion as a southerner, Nothing sounds worse than a fake southern accent, especially one coming from a person from the far north and yes, we the real ones can tell.

While I'm on the subject, I'm sick of all the redneck Jokes. No other group of people in this country is subjected to as much ethnic bias and ethnic Jokes as us. Its mostly illegal to discriminate against any other group except the White Southerner.

WHY?
Probably because we have something unique, The ability to laugh at ourselves, but we aren't too keen on outsiders joining in.

I was born in the evening shadow of Lookout Mountain in Walker County Georgia and musically educated in the bars and honky tonks of the South.

I am well aware of what Country music is and I'm sorry if some of you folks don't.[This message was edited by John Floyd on 05 July 2004 at 05:23 AM.]

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 5 Jul 2004 3:45 am

Ok now you've gone to far..

Some of the items listed above may be understandble but not this one..

as written:

" 7) The Telecaster. There are hundreds of makes and models of electric guitars out there that sound as good or better, yet they don’t have the ‘look’ "

I contend that out of the hundreds of Electric Guitars there is not even 1 Electric Guitar that sounds like a Tele'. Not even 1. Not even close.

Many of the mainstream Country tunes thru the decades had signature phrases played on the Tele's and were as important to the tunes as the voices on the records. Don and Buck and countless others.

The Tele' and the Steel together on the Bandstand is the definition of a Country band. Lets thank God that the Tele' survived all this POP dribble and changes in the Music scene througout the ages.

If some new pop star looking Country geek from Long Island wants to hold a new Tele' up as he is walking out on the Oprah show..I say thank God..he could be holding a Les Paul and then we would be claiming foul again !

There is not a "Humbucker Guitar" on the planet that has the tone, touch and feel of a Tele' in the hands of a Country Picker that understands the essence of Country Music.

The Telecaster, is not a "LOOK"..it's a way of life, just like the Steel.

The Telecaster is a History lesson all by itself..most of those folks that are holding them for the photo op know this and also wish they could play a lick or two..

And while I'm talkin' about the LOOK..Terry Clark looks pretty dang good with the White 60's Tele and Tweed Piggy Back amp in that video ! Oh..and she can 'pick a tune or two as well..

Amen sister..
oh..and what John Floyd says too....

Fender's 52 RI , you know, the famous Butterscotch, Maple Neck, Ash Body with the Black guard..is the most successful and longest running production Fender Guitar in the history of the company..

Lets be grateful that we can at least see a Tele' in the photo ops rather than a Dan Electro..

TP
1 Steel
3 Tele's
3 Strats
and a few more somewhere around here...
[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 05 July 2004 at 07:56 AM.]

John Floyd · Post by **John Floyd** » 5 Jul 2004 4:01 am

Tony sez:

I contend that out of the hundreds of Electric Guitars there is not even 1 Electric Guitar that sounds like a Tele'. Not even 1. Not even close.

Don't forget Leo's Greatest Telecaster of all, The G&L ASAT, It sounds better

[This message was edited by John Floyd on 05 July 2004 at 10:25 AM.]

Steve Hinson · Post by **Steve Hinson** » 5 Jul 2004 4:51 am

Leslie,you may be in the wrong Forum...

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 5 Jul 2004 5:33 am

Matt Dawson · Post by **Matt Dawson** » 5 Jul 2004 5:40 am

To paraphrase an old joke.
Reminds me of the guy who died and arrived at the Pearly Gates. St Peter asks him if he's ever done anything particularly good, honest or brave that would justify his being allowed in.
The chap replies that he actually did something very brave........in fact he went on the Steel Guitar Forum and complained about too much southern accents, tele's and steel guitar in country music. St Peter asks him when that was.....
.......guy replies,"Oh, about 5 minutes ago"!
[This message was edited by Matt Dawson on 05 July 2004 at 06:41 AM.]

Bill Llewellyn · Post by **Bill Llewellyn** » 5 Jul 2004 8:19 am

I think we have a two-sided coin here. On one hand, Leslie listed numerous things that are part and parcel to country music (or at least commonly found in it) and important to its character, so citing them as excessive is kinda like saying there's too much corn in corn-on-the-cob. HOWEVER, what I think he might really have been trying to say is that there's plenty of thinly written music out there that has been gussied up with the elements he listed just to make it fit the popular country genre, but doing so doesn't make it good music.

Did I read you right, Leslie?

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Bill, steelin' since '99 | Steel page | My music | Steelers' birthdays | Over 50?

Mike Sweeney · Post by **Mike Sweeney** » 5 Jul 2004 8:53 am

While I agree there is alot of sterotyping going on you have to accept the fact that record producers and labels are going to go with what sells. I'm not saying that I agree with it just that that's the way the buisness is. If you think back to the Elvis era steel guitars and fiddles were not used on some of the artists records that had been using them just because Elvis was selling more records than anybody. There were a few exceptions but a good example is "Hello Walls" by Faron Young in 1961. And it was his biggest record up to that time. Styles of music comes and goes in cycles just like the seasons, if you don't like it now just wait because something you will like will come along.
Now as far as the telecaster goes, my late uncle bought one in the early '50's and swore by the Telecaster till he died July 4th, 1985 and I agree in the right hands they are a great and versitile instrument just listen to the big difference in Don Rich and Jimmy Bryant. But for anyone to say that the Telecaster is the only defining guitar for country music is misleading. My favorite guitar playing on "country" records is the rich and round and yes "warm" tone that Grady Martin and Pete Wade and Leon Rhodes got on those Gibson ES-355's and Epiphone Sheratons. That's not to say I don't like the Telecaster because I do but, it's not the only game in town. How many of you remember the Stratocaster craze of the late '70's and early '80's with all that chorus on it? It just shows that trends come and go. I've worked sessiond here and the guitar players would bring a tele, a strat, a Les Paul, a es-335 and a six string bass. So it's not just a tele you're hearing. Besides, the layer so many guitars on some of the records now that it's hard to tell what's going on.
This is just my observation and not intended to inflame anyone, just food for thought.

Mike

Larry Robbins · Post by **Larry Robbins** » 5 Jul 2004 9:16 am

I also cast my vote for Terry Clark wearing a TELE.!!!

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Sho-Bud ProII,Nash 400,
TC Electronics M300.
"Kindly keep it Country"

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 5 Jul 2004 11:27 am

Hey Mike..nice comments. I too would certainly agree that the Tele' is not the only game in town. And it shouldn't be. My above comment is based purely on it's defense as the initial thread comment made nmention that there are hundreds of guitars that perhaps sound better and it is only the LOOK that is first and foremost..this , I contend is not and will never be the case.

And yes, I have a few Tele's, a few Strats, a 335 and a P90/Bigsby Epiphone Hollow Body in my stable as well. Each have there place, but none can ever replace the Tele'..

t-again

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 5 Jul 2004 12:06 pm

John it is beginning to look like Country music was born in the South and became a victim of homicide in Nashburg.

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Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 5 Jul 2004 12:09 pm

Bill and Mike, you guys understand what I'm saying. Thanks. Although I don't play country music, I've heard a lot of it, and I've heard and seen some really good country artists who don't have to follow stereotypes to be country.

Jim Phelps · Post by **Jim Phelps** » 5 Jul 2004 1:11 pm

.[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 08:16 PM.]

Mike Sweeney · Post by **Mike Sweeney** » 5 Jul 2004 1:31 pm

Leslie,

Country music and I mean "real" country music is something you feel. The drinkin' and cheatin' theme has been around for years. Along with songs of other heartbreaks and happiness. I'm not saying you need to be from the south to play it or feel it or even like it but, it used to be the only place you could find it was below the Mason Dixon line. I agree with some of what you said but not all.
Myself, I grew up playing country music and that's my first love but I like other forms of music too.
Take care.

Mike

Janice Brooks · Post by **Janice Brooks** » 5 Jul 2004 2:06 pm

I don't consider Ok the south. Also what about some folks from Pa etc.

Also didn't country get one of it's biggest boost as those southern folks came north to work?

Mike Sweeney · Post by **Mike Sweeney** » 5 Jul 2004 2:20 pm

Yes Janice you're right. When the folks from the south migrated up north to work in the factories and mills they brought "hillbilly" music with them and it's audience grew. Also before that W.W.2 brought the southern boys and northern boys together. I know this to be a fact because my dad was one of those southern boys.
As far as Oklahoma goes I would call it south or central southwest it sure aint up north.

Mike

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 5 Jul 2004 2:38 pm

I guess what it all comes down to is this;

It really doesn't matter where you come from or which "Guitar" you play..if you understand what Country Music is and that it is a way of life you'll play it..if you don't understand that then you won't.

I don't see it as a stereotype issue but can see why it may be perceived that way.

Are Blues Players Stereotyped because they all play 3 Chord Blues songs about "My Baby Left Me"..and then play a Harmonica solo ?

Is this Stereotyped ?

And all the Guitar players are playing Les Pauls thru Marshalls..or Gibson SG's thru Fender Twins , or Strats thru Boutique amps...I think the answer is no..it's more of a culture thing..it's how the game is played...I think it's ok..as long as they are in tune !

t

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 5 Jul 2004 6:08 pm

"In my opinion as a southerner, Nothing sounds worse than a fake southern accent, especially one coming from a person from the far north and yes, we the real ones can tell."

Interesting bit of trivia concerning John's quote above.

Many years ago, a very distinguished and baritone voiced radio announcer was heard over WFLA in Tampa, Florida by a passing Hollwood scout.

In fact the scout stopped and called the station and asked for a meeting which ended up with an audition. Which led to a movie contract. During the filming of the movie (which escapes me now), the Director yelled "Cut!!".

Then he said to this "born and bred" southern radio announcer now turned actor, "I thought you were from the south. Where is your southern accent?" Whereupon, the actor said, "I have always talked like this".

Then the director exclaimed. "Look, I do not want you to sound like a southerner sounds. I WANT you to sound like a yankee thinks a southerner sounds!"

How many times over these many years has my wife and I chuckled and sometimes all must threw up watching this scenario play out on countless movies and TV shows.

I suppose if I had to name the most classic example it would be the pitifuly unreal debacle of the famed Carrol O'Conner making a fool of himself to every southerner worth his salt in the hit TV show "In the Heat of the Night".

Sickening does not begin to depict a true southerners feeling about that show. And every member of that cast only added fuel to "our" fire. Sadly it happens all to often.

carl

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 5 Jul 2004 6:27 pm

Carl, I'm originally from Maine and felt the same way about the Yankee "accents" On "Murder She Wrote".

John P. Phillips · Post by **John P. Phillips** » 5 Jul 2004 7:23 pm

Way to go John, you hit the nail square on the head. well i guess that says it about country music,RECKON IT'LL EVER SURVIVE ?

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JUST 'CAUSE I STEEL, DON'T MAKE ME A THIEF www.geocities.com/squire592001/jason.html

Bart Maloney · Post by **Bart Maloney** » 5 Jul 2004 7:32 pm

I caught me some heat in Colorado last summer for the way i talked, but i just blew it off. People kind of gave me an odd look when i spoke, yet they were there to see that good ole band from Macon, GA, the Allman Brothers. I have to agree on the greatness of the Tele' myself. I also think this might be the wrong place to be talking bad about Steels, Country music, and the Tele. Anyone ever see Deana Carter playing that strat of hers? All I can say is Wow! She sure is purty with that thing.

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"Keep on Keepin' on"