Is The Soundman On The Opry a WB Piano Player?

John Floyd · Post by **John Floyd** » 8 Mar 2004 12:04 am

Is The Soundman On The Opry a WannaBee Piano Player?

From listening to the Opry last Sat night and recently, It appears the only thing the Sound guy wants in the mix is Piano. On the Whites portion, when It came time for Tommy White to take a ride, All you could hear was piano with Tommy's Steel in The background and its mostly the same with the Staff Band too, the Piano is way up in the mix most of the time. It sounds a like a Jam session, more than the smooth running operation it was in years gone by. Is the Staff bands stage Volume that loud or is it the Mix?

The Midnight Jamboree is even worse, the sound broadcasted from that show is pitiful, like they are using an old Shure Vocal Master PA. Hell IF they were using an Old Vocal Master it would probably sound better.

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 8 Mar 2004 3:11 pm

From where I sat in the van I could hear Tommy really good on Pins And Needles. Great C6 work there and great tone to boot. Wish I had it on tape.

I went to the Ryman a couple of times this past winter to see the Opry. I sat on both sides of the stage and could just barely hear the steel guitar.[This message was edited by Frank Parish on 10 March 2004 at 05:17 AM.]

John Floyd · Post by **John Floyd** » 8 Mar 2004 4:25 pm

Frank
I was listening to it on the Computer, don't know if that is the same feed that they use on 650 AM, but it is the same feed to the Sat Radio Hookups. Wasn't too good as I was hearing it.

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 9 Mar 2004 2:18 pm

I can remember watching a few episodes of GOO Live where the steel was turned up so loud it drowned everything out. I don't know if it was because of a bad soundman or because he was a wannabe steeler. In any case, no instrument should be turned up so loud that you can't hear the others.

Ray Montee (RIP) · Post by **Ray Montee (RIP)** » 10 Mar 2004 9:15 am

Way back when I was first starting to play, we did a lot of live radio shows. Mostly small town stations that could hardly accomodate a five or six piece c/w group in their postage stamp sized studio.
Those old "dj's" did a really fine job of balancing the various instruments, even tho' in most cases, they were using a single 8-ball mike for the entire band. No miking of individual instruments. That's the same kind of mike that was used for our many years of broadcasts over Radio KXL here in town.
Back then, with less techy equipment, I do believe the sound men had a much more accomodating attitude and pride in their craft. Today, in clubs, you'll see a sound man set everything up and when the music starts he walks off to rub up against some loose looking chick. On stage the noise that is being generated at HIGH VOLUME, is being blasted out on the crowd with the same intensity. Not listenable......but these guys tends to "look important" and often can't play a lick, even on a triangle or tamborene.
I wonder if this has anything to do with the demise of country music?

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 10 Mar 2004 11:25 am

There are two elements to the mix
The room sound from the PA,
and the live feed for the radio.

These can be from the same mixer or a different mixer in another location with the same feeds or partial sub mixed feeds.

If it is the same source, it still can be a separate mix.
Ideally this 2nd mix should NOT be done in the room, so the engineer can get it correct, but most often is done in headphones.

If it is the same mix as the PA this is bad because some stage instruments are loud and others soft, consequently the soft ones are loud in the PA mix and the loud soft.
So a very imbalanced radio mix goes out.
This is why you want a separate mix.

Another way, such as used by NPR radio for classical concerts, is 2-3 flying mics live in the room. What the audpence gets the listeners get.

But this becomes more complicated with a PA system in the room, a large reverberant room like the Ryman and a noisy audience too.

If the 2nd mix or radio sub-mix is made from the in the room console, even in loud headphones there is some leakage from the room into the cans and the mix is not accurate.

But if the mix is made in a van it is hard without a well placed video camara and monitor to tell what happens on stage.
And also which person is soloing etc.

All these factors are compounded by multiple semi-scripted one or two song performances by many performers and a revolving cast of players.

If the guy mixing didn't see or realize TW was soloing he won't punch the steel in the mix, he might have wanted to, but wasn't aware till too late.

Live shows especially multi act shows are just incredable work for the sound crews, no matter how expirenced.

In much of the opry shows I have seen on TV there are upwards of 20 people on stage at the same time, and dozens of mics.

I would find playing steel with a blues band I didn't know, much easier to do than to juggle an unscripted, 30 performner show's, Front of House AND Radio mix.

Also sometimes mics on stage get mixed up and you don't just muck around with the mix searching with 2000 people in the room and 1 million listening on the radio.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 12 March 2004 at 02:46 AM.]

Tom Kaufman · Post by **Tom Kaufman** » 12 Mar 2004 12:36 pm

What David said could very well explain what I heard as I was listening to last Friday's opry; Porter Wagoner was on..and when his lead man took a solo, it wasn't coming through loud enough. However, I heard Porter say, "Could you turn that down a little?" This told me that, although coming over the internet, the guitar wasn't as loud as it needed to be, it may have been blowing Porter away!

Tom Kaufman · Post by **Tom Kaufman** » 12 Mar 2004 1:19 pm

Actually, the insident I spoke of in my last reeply happened on last Saturday's GOO; just wanted to clearify things. I heard it last night in the "archived" section.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 12 Mar 2004 5:52 pm

The audio on both the GOO and the Letterman show seem to have more than their share of problems, don't they?

Alvin Blaine · Post by **Alvin Blaine** » 12 Mar 2004 6:07 pm

Don't ya think that after every week for 79 years of doing a live radio show broadcast someone would eventually get it right?

Tom Kaufman · Post by **Tom Kaufman** » 12 Mar 2004 8:20 pm

I agree with you Alvin..one would think so. But let's remember one thing; there weren't as much in the way of instruments and stuff to fool with back in the old days. Funny thing is..back years ago, if you listened to the opry. you probably could hear everything you needed to hear when you needed to hear it; if the stell player was supposed to be backing the singer, you heard him; same with the lead guitar..or whatever.

Walter Stettner · Post by **Walter Stettner** » 13 Mar 2004 2:34 pm

Soundmix also requires interaction with the stage, that means information from the band who is playing what (intros, solos etc). Whenever I play an important gig (radio broadcast etc.), we always provide a song list with detailed info about the song, the solos, the lead singer etc. to the sound crew. They are usually very thankful because it makes their lifa a lot easier!

Kind Regards, Walter
www.austriansteelguitar.at.tf

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David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 13 Mar 2004 3:24 pm

Walter, good on you!
You bet your bippy the sound crew loves that...

The GOO is one of that hardest gigs I can think of for the sound crew.
The acadamey awards is actually easier, with less large fast sound changes, multiple stages for bands alternating etc.

The GOO is one big stage and a revolving cast of characters, and almost every soing a differnet set up.. a true horror.
And a lovely show.

In the OLD DAYS it was ONE mic and people grouped around it.
Later no more that 3-8 and all live all the time.

Now it's more like 50 mics, on and off all night, and the best they get is a song instrumentation list.
I seriously doubt all the acts are giving them solo orders etc.

John Floyd · Post by **John Floyd** » 14 Mar 2004 2:16 pm

It was actually pretty good last night, Are they watching this forum?

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 14 Mar 2004 3:33 pm

I don't know if they read (the Forum) regularly, but I do know that they find out what's said here pretty fast. A couple of years ago, I made some comments about their "lousy sound" here on the Forum (I never was one to mince words) and the next day I got a rather lengthy email from a gentleman (Tim Farris, as I recall) who had just become the audio director of the show. (Yes, I was surprised and flattered.) He allowed as to how hard it was to mix things that are constantly changing in a live performance, and how the show frequently deviates from the script (they do have several rehearsals for the show).

You'll hear different opinions on their sound to this day. Some nights are pretty good, and some are not so good. Apparently, consistency is still a big problem for them.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 14 Mar 2004 6:11 pm

With todays technology, it is possbile for a touring act to be extraordinarily consistent.
We have come to expect that.
But the GOO is exactly tyhe opposite for the sound crew. Anything BUT consitant on stage.
So flying by the seat of your pants at lighting and sound stations.

Hat's off to them for the stress factor alone.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 18 April 2004 at 01:47 AM.]