Power Chords -R&R Pedal Steel???

Gord Cole · Post by **Gord Cole** » 4 Feb 2004 2:37 am

I think I've gleaned (correctly???) from Joe Wright's R&R videos the folowing info:
Key of C, POWER chords can be found at the A+B pedals positions strings 8,10,11 (Universal) : C, Eb, F, G, Bb, --i.e. I, b3, 4, 5, b7. Minor Pentatonic scale. If all this is correct...?...
So what???
Why a "POWER" chord ???
What for, primarily ???
When can I use it to impress the guitar player!

Help !!! What is a POWER Chord??

Thanks eh! Rawk and Rule !!!
--Gord.[This message was edited by Gord Cole on 04 February 2004 at 02:38 AM.][This message was edited by Gord Cole on 04 February 2004 at 05:09 AM.]

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 4 Feb 2004 3:01 am

A powerchord is just a big old major or minor chord that sounds good through a distorted amp.
Too many extended voicings and it has odd beats to it and vibrates oddly.

For me on E9 it's
pedal up strings 8 6 5 4 or with flat 3rd G
AB down strings 6 5 4 3 or with flat 3rd Eb

But a good power chord will just ring.

Think Joe Walsh Rocky Mountain Way, Bachman Turner Overdrive, Van Hallen etc.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 04 February 2004 at 05:29 AM.]

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 4 Feb 2004 5:50 am

No thirds! Just a root on the bottom, and a fifth up. Preferably with distortion!

Shaan Shirazi · Post by **Shaan Shirazi** » 4 Feb 2004 6:11 am

Stephen nailed it, no thirds. On a six string I like having the 5 on top and the 1 on the bottom on strings 5 and 4 respectively. That way you can vibrato the whole chord, very 80's!

Shaan

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The Pickin' Paniolo

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 4 Feb 2004 6:19 am

Stephen is right about the 3rd. If you have a cool raging chainsaw sound dialed up, the major 3rd will introduce some overtones that will usually cause strange "warblings".

Power chords come from R@R 6 string players. Use only the low tonic,the fifth and an octave IE E,B,E if you are in the key of E.

It's called a power chord because it is usually loud and strong with savage amounts of distortion.

Primarily it is used to introduce a new section in a song such as the chorus. You hit that big power chord on the downbeat and just keep hitting it at maybe four bar intervals as it will sustain for quite a while.

As a side note,Link Wray is credited with using the first so called "power chord" in his recording of the song "Rumble".

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 4 Feb 2004 6:28 am

Everyone that says NO THIRDS is absolutly correct. That means the chord is only the root and fifth.

Think of the intro to "Smoke on the Water" or "Taking Care of Business".

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 4 Feb 2004 8:54 am

I respectfully disagree, no 3rds are small powerchords or fa fa chords.

A powerchord can be A major @ 5th fret all notes.
Like Pete Townsend.

If your talking Heavy Metal chords, then yes omit the 3rd most of the time.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 4 Feb 2004 9:36 am

My understanding was that power chords were two or three string chords played on the bottom strings of a guitar. Leaving out the 3rd is a common way of playing these, but I don't know that it is essential. In blues it works good to play modal chords without the 3rd because many places in blues are equivocal about whether it is minor or major, and in fact the flat third and major third may be trilled or played back and forth to increase the tension.

It is common to use power chords as movable chords, and so to march up the neck playing the root/fifth/root of the I chord, IIIb chord and IV chord. Obviously that works as good or better on pedal steel than on a 6-string. Sacred Steel tunings commonly have a strummable 1, 5, 1 chord on the bottom. With a uni, C6 or ext. E9 you have to pick that interval with a three finger grip. On a uni (or ext. E9) you can get the IIIb chord not only by marching up the neck, but by hitting the AB pedals and dropping back two frets. Then come back to the tonic fret holding the pedals down and you are at IV.

Bo Diddley played his famous signature licks by using an open tuning on 6-string, and simply stomping up and down the neck with power chords (or full 6-string chords) using his finger as a bar. You can get that on a uni by playing power chords and stomping the AB pedals.[This message was edited by David Doggett on 04 February 2004 at 09:38 AM.]

Chris Walke · Post by **Chris Walke** » 4 Feb 2004 9:47 am

David Donald - unless every guitarist I've every met in my life is incorrect (I guess it's possible), power chords omit the 3rd.

If you are correct, it's a very common misconception.

[This message was edited by Chris Walke on 04 February 2004 at 09:47 AM.]

Randy Pettit · Post by **Randy Pettit** » 4 Feb 2004 10:47 am

My favorite power chord location on my 12-string Uni is open strings 8, 9 and 11 (omitting the 3rd, of course). You can do some basic Chuck Berry-type licks rocking on and off pedal A, or with pedal A plus the lever that raises the 9th string from B to D (5th tone to 6th tone to dom 7th tone and so forth).

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 4 Feb 2004 11:36 am

..unless every guitarist I've every met in my life is incorrect (I guess it's possible), power chords omit the 3rd.

It all depends on how much overdive you use. The overdrive adds overtones which quickly becomes very ugly if the chord includes a third.
Guitarist Pete Townshend of The Who is one example of a guitarist who gets away with 'full' power chords (and he is a master of those) because he use a fairly small amount of overdrive.
But the more overdrive you use, the more important it is to stay away from anything outside the 1-5-1 chord.

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 4 Feb 2004 12:15 pm

I stand by my original post, and most every post here, Power Chords never contain a 3rd.

That gives them their unique sound, neither Major or Minor.

They sometimes contain more than two notes, which are a root or fifth in another octave.

When Townsend plays a 1 3 5 chord, such as in the intro to Pinball Wizard, before the sus4, those aren't power chords, at least not by my definition. (They are indeed Powerful chords.)

[This message was edited by Joey Ace on 04 February 2004 at 12:19 PM.]

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 4 Feb 2004 12:34 pm

Joey,- what about the intro for "I'm Free" also from "Tommy"? Just to name one example.

Anyway,- I think we agree really, my point is 'use whatever sounds good', if the third doesn't fit - drop it. I drop it most of the time, but there are times when the third adds a flavor that is needed AND works if the sound is right.

So - use the good old ears, that's what we got them for, and that's what we've trained them for.......

Steinar

BTW - I'm a 'Power Chord Veteran' but now all this steel playing has started to soften me up, and all my friends shake their head in bewilderment.....

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www.gregertsen.com

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 4 Feb 2004 12:45 pm

Siince so many seemed quite adamant about this I did a google search and from my perspective the term has changed it's meaning since I first heard and regualrly used it decades ago.

The language has transmogrified to a more compact meaning.
I will stand chorected as you wish.
DD

Gord Cole · Post by **Gord Cole** » 4 Feb 2004 12:51 pm

Thanks guys! That info gives me some direction instead of just muckin' about at practice. Also I'll play around with my Steel Driver fuzz and listen with and without the thirds. Much appreciated.
--Gord

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 4 Feb 2004 1:20 pm

A couple of points here:
The Who's "Tommy" album was largely acoustic, so the "power chord" thing doesn't apply. Without distortion/overdrive, any chord form can be bashed about. It's the distortion that implies the other voices in a chord, andalso, creates some weird dissonances if you try to play altered chords of ANY kind, through a fuzzbox.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 4 Feb 2004 1:23 pm

did GrandPa Chuck "Crazy Legs" Berry play power chords ?

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 4 Feb 2004 1:24 pm

And there you have it folks: the first recorded example of an apology and retraction from David L Donald. A rare event in these tough times, but sometimes a man comes along big enough to get down on his knees and beg forgiveness from the Forum for his transgressions. Admitting that one's perceptions were formulated several decades earlier and might need updating takes a pretty big man and David L Donald is just that kind of guy. Aaaackkk Aaaaaccckkk! (Sorry; hairball) As I was saying, David L Donald, I salute you! (Ouch!) [This message was edited by Jim Cohen on 04 February 2004 at 01:25 PM.]

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 4 Feb 2004 2:44 pm

Stephen,- I have performed the complete 'Tommy' rock opera live on stage, and while we were two guitarists - one acoustic in addition to me on electric - I played most of the Townshend riffs with a semi-distorted sound. In fact, much of the secret to Townshends sound is his ability to blend acoustic and electric guitars.

That's my whole point in this,- there are degrees of distortion, and the more you use, the more you need to stay away from the thirds.
No need to split any more hairs over this.

Steinar

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www.gregertsen.com

[This message was edited by Steinar Gregertsen on 04 February 2004 at 02:45 PM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 4 Feb 2004 2:47 pm

Yes, two or 3 note chords...1st and 5th work best. Not always played on only the "big wires", though. (Listen to U-2's "Slash"!)

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 4 Feb 2004 2:48 pm

Yeah, yeah, that was the problem... too much "hair-splitting"!

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 4 Feb 2004 5:26 pm

I have a D-12 guitar where the bottom neck is devoted to power chords. It's tuned:
G
E
C
G
G or C
G
C
G
G
C
C
C

The bottom 2 strings are .090". You've probably noticed the high E on the 2nd string. Sometimes it gets played.

One of the interesting things about overdriven diads and chords, is when the overdriver is generating sum and difference tones. For instance sometimes an overdriven root and octave will generate a p5th (C + C8va = G) because 1 + 2 = 3, 3 being the 3rd harmonic. 2 - 1 is still 1, the root.

So C and G, a 5th apart would generate: 2 + 3 = 5, the 5th harmonic, E and 3 - 2 is 1, the C an octave below 2.

When you play C, E, and G, 2 + 5 = 7, a Bb and 5 + 3 = 8, C two octaves above 2. 5 - 2 is 3, a G unison and 5 - 3 is 2, a C unison. This only works when the triad is perfectly tuned in Just. The E wouldn't sound good if was a tempered E, the 12th root of 2 to the 4th power, or perhaps the major chord is simply too friendly for the application.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 5 Feb 2004 8:25 pm

The closer you get to JI tuning, the more acceptable the third is in a distorted chord. We can often get away with those thirds, both major and minor, above the 1-5-1 power chord if we tune them right.

Guitarists leave out the 3rds because the beats ruin the tonality of a distorted chord. Notice that some blues slide players use plenty of distortion and they often include the 3rd.

The real shocker to be is the low third in Robert Randloph's tuning. I don't quite understand how he avoids sounding like trash when he's strumming low.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
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Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 8 Feb 2004 5:05 am

Smoke On The Water.

Never heard the term until sometime in the 80's... it's a post- Eddie Van Halen expression, coined by teenagers who didn't know what to call an open fifth with the root in the bass. I don't know any serious musician who uses the term, as it's unspecific and silly. Just say, "play it in fifths"- then you'll sound erudite and you'll teach your bandmates something useful!

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Rick McDuffieMarlen SD-10, Sho-Bud Professional S-10, '78 Howard Roberts Custom, '72 Les Paul Deluxe, Fender Telecaster Custom
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Larry Robbins · Post by **Larry Robbins** » 8 Feb 2004 10:31 am

and I thought it was that thing you plugged
into the wall when you wanted to use your amp.I wont even ask about the power company.