how do i tell him????????

Dave Frye · Post by **Dave Frye** » 5 Jan 2004 9:02 am

I went and listened to my step-son play Sat nite and he and his band were really good but------------they were LOUD! Should i offer advice about this or jusst let him play into oblivion? I heard a rumor that the club was not gonna hire him back for that reason! He is really good but should i tell him or what? And how should i do it? Ole Dave Frye

Fred Shannon · Post by **Fred Shannon** » 5 Jan 2004 9:19 am

[This message was edited by Fred Shannon on 06 December 2004 at 01:27 AM.]

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 5 Jan 2004 9:25 am

The one's easy. Just tell him you heard the club was not going to hire them back for that reason. That gets you off the hook.

If he asks what you think say something like, "I guess it was too loud for my taste, but what really matters is what the guy hiring you thinks."

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 5 Jan 2004 10:12 am

there's nothing like the truth
or saying nothing which is the most polite way for tellin' a lie.
you can tell him about the harm of loudness on ears (his and everybody else's)for a start
and then get down and tell him everythang else about what it takes to be or not to be

Larry Robbins · Post by **Larry Robbins** » 5 Jan 2004 2:10 pm

Depends on what your relationship with him is like.Sometimes step children can be a little Delicate to handle and sometimes there just fine.If the two of you are tight,
Id go with Joey ACES' advice.If not Id probably try to get someone else to tell him or just stay out of it and avoid stressing the relationship.Sometimes its hard to be the "man in the middle".Good luck witch ever way you go

Been there,done that,got the "T"shirt.....

Pat Jenkins · Post by **Pat Jenkins** » 5 Jan 2004 2:51 pm

How do I tell him? Sounds like a good song there, if no one has written it yet.

Ken Lang · Post by **Ken Lang** » 5 Jan 2004 5:45 pm

My no. 1 son had that problem as well. Instead of saying "Chip off the old block, right Dad?" he would say, "I know, but we are miked and can't control the house PA."

No 2 son seemed to have a better control of volume in his bands.

I must confess, in the heyday of R'n'R in the 60's I probably played louder than the two of them put together.

What? What's that you say?

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 6 Jan 2004 4:51 am

YES..Joey has zeroed right in on the target..

And he should be told..and it will take a friend to tell him...

t

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 6 Jan 2004 6:02 am

I did a sound gig for a band called
Smegma And The Nunz.
I had to put a full 1 second delay on the vocal just so it wouldn't feedback... their advice.

2 minutes after I said no more of this for me, the damned marshall is too loud, the club owner told them he had cancelled the next gig for the same reason.
They got a mini marshal with master volume shortly after that.

Tell him nicely but directly in a
look please take this in the right way...but
take it or leave it, it's you gig.

1. you like the band and the ensemble sound.
You support him in what he is doing absolutely.

2. But you don't like the volume, and also heard(saw) comments from younger people (like cute girls) to the same effect.

3. It will likely hurt his gigging prospects to be too loud, and you want him gigging.

4. That it is not meant to hurt his feelings or the band,
but just the opposite, you want them working and also having their ears for later in their career.

5. you know I am a long time musician, I know both sides of the coin, and I can look back at the mistakes I made, and would prefer you didn't make them too. etc etc.

Dave Frye · Post by **Dave Frye** » 6 Jan 2004 8:34 am

Well guys, i have to go see him and you have given me some good advice. Thanks a lot Ole Dave

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 7 Jan 2004 12:49 am

Are they a punk band, blues, grindcore or a country band?
These things have a bearing on volume as much as anything,

Donna Dodd · Post by **Donna Dodd** » 7 Jan 2004 2:15 am

Volume is the most puzzling topic I’ve ever encountered among musicians. Keep in mind, I am NOT a musician, so my vantage point offers perhaps a different perspective.
The question is, “Should I tell them they’re too loud?”
The question isn’t, “Should I tell them they have bad breath” or “Should I tell her I’m no longer in love with her?” or “Should I tell him he’s not the father of my baby?” Geeze, Louise – if I’m watching a terrific movie, but the volume is too high – so I turn it down isn't necessarily because I want to talk to someone during the movie OR because I find fault with the movie in any way. It’s just too loud! It becomes too loud to Me when my senses collide, and are inappropriately balanced for the conditions. Volume preference is subjective, and doesn’t mean “too loud” is a derogatory remark. Also keep in mind that the band is “in the moment” with one another – grooving, and loving what they do together. Conversely, each listener has his own together agenda. They might really like the music – that’s why they chose that establishment. But possibly (unlike the band, who’s groovin’ and lovin’ the music they’re making) this guy is groovin’ with his lady and doing all he can to get on the “lovin’” side of her.

I hope you guys understand that this REALLY is how most listeners feel. The majority of non-musicians do not realize that volume is a sensitive issue. So it shouldn’t be taken personally if someone suggests turning-down. Unfortunately, most people DO NOT hear (or feel) what you are hearing through your artistic ears! And believe me, it’s OUR loss.
My personal volume standards are quite simple, however – and am in total agreement that the steel guitar volume should be the most emphasized and is NEVER too loud!!!!!

Please know, this is meant to shed light on how others may think – and is NOT a criticism at all. We each have our own listening agenda. Mine is front row, center. Don’t talk to me. Don’t dance between me and the band. You see, I have a double agenda – I’m groovin’ with the music AND looking forward to lovin’ my steel-playing husband later in the night.

[This message was edited by Donna Dodd on 07 January 2004 at 03:10 AM.]

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 7 Jan 2004 4:52 am

Donna the and major component to "too loud", besides the audience preferences, is ear damage, often caused by ear fatigue.

Your ears desensitize to loud levels after awhile as a protective mechanism for the brain... not the ears.
But then to maintain the same "apparent level" for the players they turn up.

Atfer a certain ablsolutly measurable continuous level the ears nerve connecti0n start assuming this is a normal level and permanently dessensitize, hense they pass less sound to the brain.

This is a viscious cycle that only gets worse with time.

It starts young and you go down hil from there.
if you see the big stars with in ear monitors, it is because they can block out much of the stage sound level and replace it with a controled mix a a safe level.

They know their careeer depends on their ears lasting a LOONNNNGGG time.

Young players in young bands often seem to think as many do at that age, that they will survive all things.
But this is just not so.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 7 Jan 2004 10:06 am

You'll probably need to shout.

Bowie Martin · Post by **Bowie Martin** » 7 Jan 2004 6:54 pm

I played a job with a band I play in last Saturday night; the group is good(I'd the weak link), great vocals, but some in the group play in another group that is extremely loud. So, when I got us booked into this club, I told them in advance, it was a quite club. We were practicing and doing sound check before the club opened. The club owner came over and said we needed to cut down some...to make a long story short, he had a decibal (?)
sound reader at the door. I went over to him to check the sound again and it was reading a little over a 100; he said, it needs to be about 97, so often can go a little higher. Once the band knew the measure, they seemed to have no problem; it was documented - not subjective. Bands play around 97 or less, or they don't come back. Thats the way it worked. The job went well after that.

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 7 Jan 2004 8:36 pm

You may be worrying about a problem that doesn't exist! I as a musician do not like loud music! It might sound strange, but; whenever the club-owner or his/her Rep. came up to the bandstand and requested a turn-down, I never took it personally! I usually welcomed it. A lot of band-members think that if they can't hear themselves, they need to turn ‘UP’ where in reality the rest of the band needs to come ‘DOWN’ a little. Otherwise, everything eventually becomes ‘LOUDER and LOUDER’ until everything is out of control and the complaints start flying, and then sometimes it's just too late to save the Gig! I'd much rather have someone ask me to turn ‘UP’ than ‘DOWN’! (Not a band member, but; THE-BOSS! Maybe your step-son is just trying to keep up with the rest of the band! He might actually want you to agree with him that everyone is too loud! JMHO “Big John”

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“Big John” Bechtel
http://community.webtv.net/KeoniNui/BigJohnBechtels

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 7 Jan 2004 10:15 pm

Whaaaaaaaat? Whoooooooo? Oh Yeaaaaaah.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 7 Jan 2004 10:18 pm

Mr Doggett, You NAILED IT!

Probably have to pull off his headset first.

EJL

[This message was edited by Eric West on 07 January 2004 at 10:21 PM.]

Roy Ayres · Post by **Roy Ayres** » 8 Jan 2004 12:09 pm

I once lost a good, regular booking for the Boyd Bennett band (Rock and Roll) because of a loudness issue. We were playing the Officer's Club at Fort Knox. The wife of the Colonel who managed the club came up to me and yelled, "That amplifier is too loud." I said, "I'm sorry ma'm, I can't hear a word you are saying. This amplifier is too loud." She said something to the Colonel, the Colonel said something to Boyd, and Boud said something to me -- something like, "You dummy, you just lost this gig for us in the future."

But, on a more serious note (if you'll pardon the pun), I have a ringing in my ears that never goes away. My doctor told me it was nerve damage and could never be corrected. If I knew then what I know now . . .

Don Discher · Post by **Don Discher** » 9 Jan 2004 8:10 am

This is kinda funny,one time we were doing a gig at a small club and the acoustics in the place were so bad even your tuner seemed loud.This one older gentleman cam up and told us we were way too loud but I usually wait for atleast 2 people to mention it.When we finished the song we were doing I could hear this real high pitched squeal and I knew it was'nt our system so I took a little walk and as it turned out,the guy that said we were too loud had his hearing aid turned wide open and he was seated at the back of the room and we could hear it on stage.He did'nt like it when I asked him to turn his hearing aid down,your way too loud.
True story

Chris Walke · Post by **Chris Walke** » 10 Jan 2004 8:12 am

What's the big deal?? This is not an issue of talent. It's cut and dry.

Say, "you guys sound great but it's too loud. You should consider the people you are entertaining." Or, "You're too loud and you might push your audience away or lose gigs."

Seems odd so many people are advocating pussy-footin' around this one. It's a basic thing, like if the guitars were horribly out of tune and they were playing too loud to hear each other, point it out.

Wouldn't YOU want to know if you are doing something counterproductive to your band's success? I'm sure he would too.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 10 Jan 2004 10:16 am

So it's been 5 days now...
Have you told him???

Dave Frye · Post by **Dave Frye** » 10 Jan 2004 10:38 am

No, i haven,t told him yet. Been tryin to think of how to put it and it seems from all the replies i got, just do it and get it over with! So----- next week! Thanks guys, really! Ole Dave Frye

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 10 Jan 2004 4:11 pm

In my experience, country-rock is the loudest music out there. The loudest concert I ever attended was Sawyer Brown. It was painful to be in that audience, even in the back of the room.

Country-rock bar bands are often way over the top. Like Roy, I have some permanent ringing in my ears, and I'm sure it was caused by playing in country-rock bands. All of the rock, blues and traditional country bands I've played with had control of the volume knobs. The country-rock bands (including most "new country") seem to consist of people who can't control their volume well enough to play roots music.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 10 Jan 2004 4:17 pm

b0b, you just ain't heard loud I guess.
Nothing like twin Marshal majors and a double cab Ampeg SVT to put the fear god in a person.

I have mixed truely absurd shows (for big bucks) in my day. Get sound check done and put in the Norton ear plugs and just take'm out for 3-4 minutes if the club crowd size changes drasticly for a check and then back in the old bean.

Thank providence someone invented a metal amp that sounds good with a master volume down.

Country rock gigs were just down right peaceful for me in the 70-80s.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 10 January 2004 at 04:18 PM.]