The Young: Are they Ruining Country Music?

Musical topics not directly related to steel guitar

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Eric West
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The Young: Are they Ruining Country Music?

Post by Eric West »

I have some real good opinions on the subject.

Being 50, and holding an AARP card, I feel that I finally have a liscence to talk about "Them" without chastisement from "The Old". Now they're just Older. I am Old.

I have a couple questions and need My Own String to reply or throw a few out there.

How about Wages: Who is it that has brought them down and continues to hold them to the levels they are at?

Performance: Who is it that destroyed "dynamics", and "taste"? When did this start happening?

How are "the young" affecting the Musical Establishment WRT the "Money End of it"?

Here too I suggest a sub-topic of "What excuses have you heard (or used) for recording or working for free."

What do you think we can expect from The Young in the Future?

Are you afraid of it, or can you barely wait for it?

Thanks for any answers.

I'll feel free to jump in.

Some of my best conversations are with myself.

Sometimes I lose even those arguments..

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EJL
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Alvin Blaine
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Post by Alvin Blaine »

What's your definition of young?

What age bracket are you talking about?
Most of the music industry is run by 45-60+ year old guys. If anything is getting ruined, I would think that they should be held accountable.
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Eric West
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Post by Eric West »

For the sake of arguement, and since it's my query, I'd like to have 50 be the dividing line. I know there are several that fall on the line.

Some would probably have it 65, but then some might have it be One Hundred.

What have some of the people that are over 60 done to ruin the Country Music Business if it indeed has been?

I have a few pet opinions.

Has it been ruined?



<:0)

EJL<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Eric West on 17 August 2003 at 11:20 PM.]</p></FONT>
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Mike Perlowin RIP
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Post by Mike Perlowin RIP »

I think what is ruining music in general, not just country, is that the music business is all about business and not about music. Recordings are manyfactured by corporate suits who only think about unit sales.

Pete Anderson lives near me and although we are not close, we do see each other occasionally. Pete told me that every time he and Dwight went to the studio, some guy from the accounting department would come in with a sales chart or graph that showed people bought more records with fuzz guitars or disco drums, and therefore he wanted those elements added to the recording. Pete would try to explain that they were trying to make records with some musical integrety, and the guy never got it. The very concept was completely unknown to him. The only thing Pete could say to convince the guy to leave them alone was that since the records were already selling, if Dwight changed his basic sound, he might lose some of his audience and the sales might drop.
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Tony Prior
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Post by Tony Prior »

Eric..you're still young !

How did you get an AARP card at 50 ? I thought it was 55 !

Ok back to the post..Mike is pretty close here..

It's all about the potential calculated income ..you gotta have the look, the RR feel, the correct video..the proper haircut or style..show a bunch of skin..camera appeal..all that stuff..its' ahead of the actual music...

Like my wife says about me..
"You've got pretty good appeal as long as they don't show your bald spot"

Huh ???

I need my AARP card so I can get $.10 coffee at Burger King..forget the music,..I want the $.10 coffee...

tp
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Post by Ron Page »

Mike, I think I'd have told the accountant that McDonalds sells billions of hamburgers, but they also have lots of chicken and fish on the menu.

You sure he wasn't from Marketing. They tend to know the least about the market... Image

I think the 70's rockers and not the young are the downfall of country music. I can hear it.

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Eric West
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Post by Eric West »

Yup TP, AARP Happens at 50.

THe day I got the card I was ecstatic.

Now I'm just waiting for the checks.

Myron. I'm just heading off for work, but I didn't think Lee Greenwood did the keybard replacement.
One reason I've thought that few steels travel wit "top names" is the lack of guarantee of accurate reproduction. Probably that is in mind while recording songs that will end up out on the road.

Hmm..

Gotta run/

EJL
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Post by Shaan Shirazi »

I blame exceedingly cheap musical instruments and the 15 minutes phenomenon for the demise of overall musical talent on display in live and recorded settings.

There used to be a barrier to entry that would automatically weed out the posers in the world because a decent guitar cost a month's salary. Now any joker with $300 can get a Squire Strat and loud amp and suck all night long. Throw in modern society's reluctance to judge anything as good or bad just "different" then you have the label of musician being applied to everyone from the clueless to the maestro.

My civilian college friends also don't seem to understand why someone would want to play music for music's sake and not having the goal of being a star. That's their mindset, if you're not trying to be famous then what is music for? That's another problem society has and is why they're looking for star quality as opposed to just quality.



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JERRY THURMOND
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Post by JERRY THURMOND »

I think most of us played southern rock along with country back in the 70's, because it brought in a larger group of people, those extra people we got were not country an never was, we still got them, they never did want Hank Sr , they wanted Hank Jr, it is still that way today back in 70's an 80's we still had a lot good country singers, so we didn't care, today we only have a hand full an we don't like it. I hope it changes to the good, but I am not holding my breath. Jerry
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Tony Prior
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Post by Tony Prior »

Hank jr..

Who's he ?

Is he even related to Hank Sr ? or just a Monday Night football guy..with a Les Paul of course..<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 18 August 2003 at 06:59 AM.]</p></FONT>
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Mike Perlowin RIP
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Post by Mike Perlowin RIP »

<SMALL>I blame exceedingly cheap musical instruments...</SMALL>
I beg to differ. The availablity of inexpensive but decent instruments is a boon to working musicians. All too often, guitars get damaged or stolen in clubs. I would never take my $2,500 Gretsch to a gig. But I can take my $200 Korean copy, which actually a very nice guitar, without worrying about it. It's easily replacable if it gets damaged or stolen.

The audience doesn't know the difference anyway.
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Post by Michael Haselman »

I do think Shaan has a valid point. I read an interview once with Junior Brown (who, by the way, Eric, is the same age as you and I. Class of '71). He reminisced about his youth when somebody with an electric guitar was out of the ordinary and something special. I remember those days well. Now every other kid has one, and the standards of musicianship have gone down considerably.

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David Mason
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Post by David Mason »

Shaan Shirazi makes the point that many people don't play for the music, but for the payday it might bring. These people are naturally going to look at the market and try to judge what might sell best, rather than try to find a musical voice and identity of their own that would result in music with integrity. I agree about the 70's rock - Garth Brooks (the Anti-Hank) is well known as a big fan of arena rockers like Styx, Journey and Kiss and I think he built his career on what would sell. Bruce Springsteen proved that sincerity is a marketable commodity, and a flannel shirt, a pair of dirty jeans and a pickup truck are all you need to make the transformation from teen punk to country video star. There are exceptions, of course - Brad Paisley and Keith Urban both play good lead, but you can bet they got their shot at video stardom based more on cuteness than musical prowess.
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Post by Pete Burak »

It's a pretty basic equation, really...
"John Q. Oblivious" x "PT Barnum" = Kenny Chesny, Toby Keith, "...and the rest..." [sung to the Gilligans Island theme Image]

The title of the thread should be...
People who make/made millions in the Country Music biz: Are "they" Ruining Country Music?

or...
People Who Bought the CD and Concert Tickets because they were told that "this is good music and you like it", and they believed it, so they got fed more and more and more and STILL BEGGED FOR MORE!:Are They Runining Country Music?

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Post by David L. Donald »

Excuses.
"There is no U in Team."
"Music is not a democracy."
"I have decided to make it big and I know what
I want, but am not paying you to do it. Just do it my way"

"If it's not fun to work on I don't want to do it,
and I only have fun doing things my way."

"You're too old for this"

" Excessive concentration is not showing good people skills"

" I sing the songs, I have to be the one in charge,
I don't want to be, but I have to be."

It goes on and on and on. Youth is wasted on the young.<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 18 August 2003 at 01:47 PM.]</p></FONT>
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Post by CrowBear Schmitt »

never trust anybody under 40 Image
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Post by Stephen Gambrell »

Mr. West,
I thank you for making the half-century mark the line of demarcation. This means that, at 48, I'm one of the young people whose football keeps landing in your yard. You are
a grumpy, opinionated, self-centered old fart, resistant to change and opposed to that which you do not understand!
Not bad qualities at all.
Aspirations of mine, in fact, and I only have two years to go.
I'm now playing real loud lead guitar in a dive, for drunks half my age. Somebody's trailer is empty tonight, I suppose. I ran into an ex-girlfriend's 30-year old daughter last week, drunk out of her mind. She was bragging about her 6 month old baby...
And I'm back in "show business."
And thankful to God that I don't have to do this for a living.
But I wish I had a suit like yours, it's hard to feel the knees with this robe on. Image
So, do you play Day, or Emmons style? I mean, which side of the stage has the glass of water with your teeth in it?
Bottom line, young folks, whether today or thirty years ago, have it all figured out. You gotta be different, just like everybody else. Rebel against everything, and smoke a lot!
AARP??? Tony, next time I see you, we're going to Shoney's.
Eric, the Depends are in the mail.
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Eric West
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Post by Eric West »

God I wish I had time to answer all these..

I think you're 100% right Mr Gambrell. I pop those footballs nowadays.

I'm not resistant to change, I just don't..

"Somebody's Trailer is empty tonite". GREAT title for a waltz....

I work Days, and couldn't play an Emmins if my life Depend'ed on it. I count my sucess by the number of cigarette burns on stage at the places I play. WHen people ask me if I've ever played on one side or the other, I show them the equal amount of them on each side. and a bunch in the middle. In one place, about 15 years of them after they moved the bandstand..

Scott H. I think you've expressed my thoughts about "the young" in general probably better and more concise than I.

I know or knew several old people that revelled in new things, and were exited no end with the exuberance of young people. One lady named Violet that was a family friend and a retired english teacher used to button hole me at boring family functions and talk about the newest and wildest things for hours. Young people provided the spark for her. She was in her 80s at the time. We talked about Las Vegas, Surfing, New Music, and all kinds of things. She's now deceased, and I miss her at those boring family things..

Nope. The Young are our Destiny. Our Future.

Don't like the Deraillers, Green Day, Shania Twain, Cheryl Crow, David Lee Roth, Eminem, R R, loud noise, lewd and lascivious lyrics and gyrations? Then why do you have a porn collection and drool over young women in the supermarket?

Incidentally I was 12 yrs old when Hank Jr put out his first album, and I thought it topped his old man. Music wise. "Why do the Best Looking girls have real ugly friends" was one of my later faves. Too bad about the fall off the mountain I guess..

As far as the leeches, lawyers, music companies, and schemes for domination. I'll just say this.

A lot of the "Old guys" are about to have to jump out of windows, because not only is their precious Vinyl Monopoly in the toilet, but they're finding out that some of the BEST NEW ARTISTS don't even care if someone downloads their music, burns CDs of it and sells them on a bandstand. Let alone the state of all the mattress tag police, who will have to lock up their own Moms and kids if anybody ever gets serious about it.. Maybe they'll have to get jobs.

In a while I'll bring up the real roots of irreverent chord bashing, amp distortion, decadadent morals, shameless exhibitionism, and in general, all the things old people actually younger than these "musical miscreants" rail against so shrilly.

Some of these flagrant devils in disguise are 70. Some of them are 80. Some of them, if alive would be a hundred. Some a hell of a lot older than that.

As directed to "Music" in general, from the times of beating rocks and blowing on antler whistles,it's THE OLD that come the closest to "ruining music", however,in God's plan, as I see it, the world is usually shut of them before they wreak their havoc.

If I remember the written accounts, the Old People thought JS Bach whored around and played too may disturbing notes, and lust inciting chords.

Adolph Hitler castigated Jazz as the most vile spew of "lesser creatures" and tried his best to replace it with Wagner.

In short, music wise as well as otherwise The Young represent The Future. It's like a long train.

Get on it, or get under it.

As far as Country Music, I have a few hours sleep, and a 14 hour day to do paving before I put any more down.

Lots of stuff to think about here.

Thanks.

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Post by David Mason »

Don't forget the P.O. Factor - every upcoming generation desperately needs to find a style of music that will piss off their parents, and every generation succeeds. Hot jazz, Sinatra, Elvis, the Beatles, Zeppelin, Run-DMC, Marilyn Manson, Eminem and on and on. Come on, you did it too.
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Post by David L. Donald »

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR><SMALL>So, do you play Day, or Emmons style? I mean, which side of the stage has the glass of
water with your teeth in it? </SMALL><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
LOL that's a howler.

It's funny I had a hard time playing music my father didn't like... he turned me on to
Frank Zappa and the Mothers Of Invention, Miles Davis, Stockhousen, MJQ, Edith Piaf/Jaques Brel, E. Power Biggs, Bill Halley, early blues and ragtime, The Band, Boston, J. Giuls Band, Tommy Bolin and Jerry Reed.

He didn't mind hearing; Mountain, Allman Bros, 10 Years After, Steppenwolf, Stones.
Eric Myers

Post by Eric Myers »

<SMALL>He reminisced about his youth when somebody with an electric guitar was out of the ordinary and something special. I remember those days well. Now every other kid has one, and the standards of musicianship have gone down considerably. </SMALL>
I beg to differ - in my sons middle school of 600 he is the ONLY one with an electric guitar, but everyone is an "MC" hahaha .
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Post by Jesse Pearson »

Shaan, if that statement about cheapo instruments ain't one of the most incorrect things I ever heard any musician ever say, talk about snobbish, LOL. Anybody who has been around and can play knows your statement is all poser and no fact in truth what so ever. I don't give a rats ass if someone has a expensive instrument or a computer cut cheapo, if they studied hard and are areal, they are gonna sound pretty much the same on any good playing instrument. Certain Squires play and sound great and are cut with computers that keeps the specs pretty exact. Quality in musicianship and price tags of instruments have nothing in common anymore because of this reality. I love it when guitar players check out my guitars and see I have Squire Tele's, they always shake their head and say it's got great tone (all stock Chinese). It's the amp settings and what I'm playing, more then the guitar I'm playing and I've gone thru expensive Fender and Gibson gear in the past. Expensive gear is something to be proud of for many reasons, but your gonna sound the same pretty much on today's cheapo computer cut stuff. I mean, there's not that much to a freakin guitar.

Eric, 50 is not old anymore if you take care of your self. I know your one hard working dude and that can make anyone feel pretty old sometimes working night and day like you do, don't you think? The music biz is changing as always, what's going on now will be different 6 years down the road. I don't think young people are ruining anything and never have. I hear more steel guitar from Hawaiian to pedal on commercials now than I remember ever before, what's that saying?

Hank Williams (Don Helms) still rules and always will!!! Punk fans have been into Hank for years, what's up with that?

I think when you've lived awhile, you have more points of reference to compare things with and are less likely to get excited over supposed new things. Good music will always stand the test of time just like good players with a great manager do.
For some of us, being able to have time to smell the roses and play what you like is what counts in the end.

I think out of all the instruments one can find in a country band, Steel players have it made because there aren't that many around and a young band would rather have an old geezer steel player in the band than no steel at all. Guitar players however don't have it that good now do they?
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Eric West
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Post by Eric West »

Here's one of these Young Upstarts that started playing in Western Swing bands in the 1940s.

He's about 74 years old at this point. Still doing paid gigs if the info is current.

Anybody remember "Rumble"? Recorded almost 50 years ago?

If not, then you have no idea where heavy metal Rock and Roll really came from.

74 years old..

Yeah, those crazy "young people"..

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EJL


<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Eric West on 19 August 2003 at 08:35 PM.]</p></FONT>