Indian rhythmns

Cory Dolinsky · Post by **Cory Dolinsky** » 9 Jul 2003 5:08 am

I was reading a post earlier where someone was asking advice on strengthing their rhythmn skills and i dug up some old notes from a music of india class that helped me out alot with complex and standard rhythmns.

You can hear some of the tabla players singin out these beats while playing.
The main thing is they change their sylables which makes it easier to flow especially on hard rhytymns, and when you want to leave parts of beats out it seems easier to connect. this may be hard to do on the computer because you cant hear the pronuciation but i will put what it sounds like in english next to the india sound.

these all go subdivide a quater note

TA = guarter note - the A is pronounced AH

TA KA = eight notes - KA is pronounced with the A sounding like UH

TA KI TA = triplets - KI is pronounced like KEY

TA KA DE MI = sixteenth notes - DE is pronounced like it looks and MI sounds like english ME

lastly 5 beats to a quarter note not sure what you call the individual beats in numeric terms
TA DE KI NA THOM =in NA the a sounds like AH and the THOM -the TH sounds like the T in tack and sounds OHM like the electrical term.

This stuff is hard at first to pronunciate but once you get the hang of hit its so much easier rhytmicaly than the english. you change up rhythymns or take out any of the sylables smoothly. one example

your playing triplets but you dont want all of the beats over a quarter note
think TA KI TA but play this first two TA KI and leave out the TA but in your mind prounounce it while your practicing and your note values will stay triplets.

you can play complex rhytmns with this system tying these sylables togethor or leaving some out.

Cory[This message was edited by Cory Dolinsky on 09 July 2003 at 06:14 AM.][This message was edited by Cory Dolinsky on 09 July 2003 at 10:37 AM.]

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 9 Jul 2003 5:38 am

I have no problem with
1 - 2 - 3 - 4 == one pulse per beat
1 and 2 and 3 and 4 == two pulses per beat
1 a la 2 a la 3 a la 4 a la == three pulses per beat
1 e and a 2 e and a 3 e and a 4 e and a == four pulses per beat

I've rarely found a need for five

I have no problem with Hindi, but prefer to use English to count western music. Now if I were playing ragas . . . I'd have to worry about microtonal intervals as well as the complex rhythms. ?????? Nah, think I'll pass. And I'll count in English.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
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Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 9 Jul 2003 7:25 am

Cory,
Good stuff. I think the Indian system of solefege is quite a bit more developed than the western counterpart also.
If you guys ever check out a live Kawali concert some of those improvized rythmic modulations are breathtaking.
The Indian style system of practicing along to a drone did more than most anything else in improving my intonation also.

Bob

Carter York · Post by **Carter York** » 9 Jul 2003 8:35 am

I've enjoyed striking a harmonic, let's say an "E", and playing the following scale 'over the harmonic sustain':

E F Ab A B C Eb E

I don't have a full theoretical understanding of this, but I believe the jump from F to Ab and C to Eb are defining elements in some non-western scales. I did a search a few years back for 'exotic scales' and this was listed as an Egyptian scale. Maybe someone else could shed more light on this...

Carter

Tommy Mc · Post by **Tommy Mc** » 10 Jul 2003 10:33 am

When my daughter was taking sitar lessons, we downloaded a tabla program called SwarShala. The demo has a 5 min timer, but it is a great tool for learning about Indian music and the way they count time.
http://www.swarsystems.com/SwarShala/index.htm

Smiley Roberts · Post by **Smiley Roberts** » 10 Jul 2003 1:20 pm

Miguel (Mike) Smith is,pretty much,an authority of Indian music on steel. Check w/ him.

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Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 10 Jul 2003 4:41 pm

I have made my living playing music for a LOT of years. One thing I learned early on is that ANYTHING you learn/study musically will help you out at some time in your career. At 52 this year I started working on some Indian rhythms on the tabla drums and on the sitar. I was playing a jazz gig on electric bass the other night and the drummer told me he could hear some of the ideas I have picked up from this study in my improvising.

Mr. Dolinsky--discussing Indian musicology on a Steel Guitar Forum is one of the best posts I have seen here in a LONG time. A discussion on this topic among SOME steelers would be akin to cavemen having a meaningful discussion about the space shuttle.

The history of Indian music goes back hundreds and hundreds of years. The depth of the rhythm patterns and melody is astounding. The list of famous Western musicians who have made a study of it and incorporated it into their musical language is well documented.

Very cool to see this here. There IS life after the number 4.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 10 Jul 2003 8:33 pm

Since it's not about pedal steel, I'm moving this to the 'Music' section of the Forum.

I enjoy Indian music, and often play with the tabla patches on my HandSonic.

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Dave Boothroyd · Post by **Dave Boothroyd** » 10 Jul 2003 11:45 pm

While we are at it, Indians sing Sa Re Ga Ma, instead of Do Re Mi Fa.
I do remember in junior school in England, that they taught a spoken notation that was very similar to the one the tabla players use to sing the Tals- or beats as Hiphoppers would call them.
I remember singing Ta, Ta, Taffy,Teffy to some tune or other.
African drummers use something even more complex because they change the initial consonant sound to indicate which type of drum strike they are using. So for example TaTa would be two eighth note finger taps whereas GaTa would be a strike with the heel of the hand followed by a finger tap, both eighth notes.
(those are not the real words, but my Sengalese student is out performing today- Africa in the heart of the Forest of Dean!)
Cheers
Dave[This message was edited by Dave Boothroyd on 11 July 2003 at 12:47 AM.]