Johnny Cucci - "An American Guitar Player"

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 31 May 2003 11:57 am

Forumite Jody Carver wrote a great tribute to Johnny Cucci, in a thread about their HCOA Album in "Events and Announcements".

Jody asked me to post it as a seperate thread so it won't be lost.

It's a long read, but worth it.

Here goes:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>"Hello
I have this nice LP on CD-It was released in Japan in 2001 on a label saying "Zippy CD Company.Maybe some kind of bootleg,I don`t know,I bought my copy via a mailorder company in CA.USA.Can`t remember where,but the CD is real.-----------------------------
This was posted by a Forum member a few days ago.

I want to explain my reason for seeing this Lp re-issued in CD format.

Johnny was a close friend of mine,he taught me much about music,how to sight read etc etc
John came from a poor family of Italian immigrants and they had a difficult time growing up.

He often told me how his dad died when he was young and his mom supported himself and his brother Louis and sister Yolanda.

He told me of the struggle in his life trying to survive and many times ate nothing
but food that would fill the stomachs of the
family.

When I say poor,I mean poor, Johnny served in the US Navy during WW 2 and his brother held the fort and supported the mother and young sister by working in a factory where his life was in jeopardy most all the time.

His story is a sad one,but his love for music
helped raise his hope to someday be a musician,and that hope became a reality.

FF to 1953..I first met Johnny doing a TV show with Elton Britt and Rosalie Allen. We
became friends right from the start.

My musical ability was nothing compared to Johnny's,he was a fine musician much more than what he performed on the HCOA.

His backround was with Montavani and George
Shearing and many other recording artists in the New York area.

Still his backround of his growing up poor was evident,he struggled for his place in a city overloaded with great guitarists.

His meeting me developed a friendship which lasted from the day we met until the day he passed.

His dream of a Django type group was his dream. My part came when the violinist decided he didnt want to follow what he called Johnny's "pipe dream".

Just by chance a few years later I was asked
by Leo Fender and Don Randall to perform at
the Hotel New Yorker in Manhattan to demonstrate the newly designed Fender 1000.

I was able to get Johnny to perform with me.
This was the summer of 1956. John was always
playing his D'Angelico with a D'Armond pickup
in addition to his Gibson Super 400.

After a few days of playing together Don Randall presented John with a beautiful Blonde Stratocaster with gold hardware.
It was difficult for John getting used to the feel of this solid body guitar after having used his D'Anglelico for so many years.

John was so happy and proud that Don & Leo presnted John what is known as "The Mary Kaye
Guitar" that in fact was assumed as Mary Kaye
did pose with that very same guitar that was
intended for one person and that person was
Johnny.

This can be documented elsewhere on the Internet as I know the owner of Johnny's Fender Stratocaster,,his name is Iain Hersey.

I was contacted by Richard Smith and put in touch with Iain a few years ago. Dave Van Allen also played a role in this meeting.

Johnny was so happy with his new love that he
stopped playing his D'Angelico and was laughed at by local musicians who thought the sound of his Fender was a "hillbilly sounding instrument.

Still his devotion and dedication to Leo Fender and Don Randall continued in spite of his sometimes stubborn attitude when told by band members to leave that lousy hillbilly guitar home and play a real guitar.

His idea of a group of 4 musicians came after
Leo and Don thought we made a good pair.
But still there was the violinist to consider
and John being loyal would not consider replacing him with another instrument.

Personal issues became the case with the violinist and he felt it was a waste of time.

I was then called by John much to the dis-pleasure of Augie & George as they didnt like
the sound of a hillbilly steel guitar,the name steel guitar turned them off even before
they heard me play.

Johnny lived in a cold water flat (do you know what that is)?? Its an apt with no heat,
He lived in a tenement house in upper Manhattan on the West side,hardly a place to raise a family these days,but then it was all
that Johnny knew.

I went to Johnny's apt and in the three little crowded rooms lived his mom and brother,his mom would always cook up some good Italian food for us. We tried to find a place for the steel guitar and I could see from the outset that Augie and George had their doubts.

Johnny worked with me constantly,sometimes late into the night,long after the other two would leave.He was determined to fit me in somehow.

Fast Foward,,we were able to acheive a sound
in spite of my inablity to be on par with Augie and George and certainly not anywhere even close to Johnny's ability.

Yet he never gave up,even though I wanted to pack it up. He would work with me asking me if I could get this chord,or that chord,he would play counter chords and ask if I could get something that would fit in.

After what seemed like a lifetime,we started
to get a blend and Augie and George were pleased but never admitted it.

We took the little money we had and went to
a recording studio in Manhattan and recorded
what you hear now.

There were many, many things we didnt like about our demo,but it was intended for that and nothing else,we knew we could do better.

We went to every record company in NYC trying for the dream Johnny had. We were complimented by the A&R people at RCA..Roulette records etc etc.

Still we had no luck...and it was back to Johnnys three room apt and keep going till all hours of the night. Those Twin amps were working overtime.There was no air conditioning and we sweat bullets until we
felt we had what we were looking for.

Carrying a heavy Tweed Twin amp up 8 flights of stairs was tough even on a young guy like me,and to think of how George Nida carried his upright German bass up all those steps makes me realize now how hard it was.

George was at the end of his great career as
a musician,he was growing old and his health
was against him. He had heart trouble.

He would rehearse and then leave for his job as a cab driver..here was a brilliant musician who had to resort to driving a cab in Manhattan..you ever do that?? try it.

Finally the group had it together and we again took the demo (what you hear now) to other record companies that we missed.

The last chance was CORAL..if this failed,it was over for us..just once more please make it happen.

A man by the name of Bob Theil who was head of A&R heard the demo,,he called another person into the studio control room to listen to this "demo".

I knew I had seen that face before,but where?
This man walked up to us and said, "hey you guys are really HOT. I saw a smile on Johnnys
face,I looked and still wondered.."who is this man" he said Hi I'm Steve Allen..WHAT?????? Steve Allen host of the Tonight show? Yes...Steve was a recording artist for Coral,he said you guys are hotter
than a firecracker on the 4th of July.

That was it,,we were in. No money or royalties were discussed,we were asked if we
had a manager to help draw up the contracts.

I said no sir,we dont have anyone,we cant afford a manager. Bob Theil said well in your
best interests I would if I were you guys get one,meanwhile we want you.

Steve Allen said I dont think we should record this again,you guys may never capture
what I'm hearing today. Dammit we all knew we
could do much better.

We engaged a manager who was un-enthical as we learned a short time later,he cut a deal for himself and took off.

We had nothing on paper,all we had was a demo
and 4 Red Jackets.

The rest is history,little promotion was done by Coral and they became dis illusioned
know the problems that the manager caused and
they didnt want to be in the middle, so that
ended the HCOA.

The group broke up,,I went back to Fender full time,George drove his cab until he passed away behind the wheel of his cab.

Augie went to work with Roberta Sherwood and
George Shearing and Johnny's heart was broken.

John passed away in November of 1986,he was married a few years earlier for the very first time,he was 63 when he was married and
Im certain his missing his mom and being lonely made that decision for him.

He had a brilliant mind and a BIG heart.He
became ill and moved to Florida and lived in a run down apartment in a bad section.

Johnny had a heart attack unbeknown to me as we lost contact years before.

His onece brilliant mind was now fading,he
couldnt remember his own name,he didnt remember his Stratocaster.

Johnny died at age 66 of Alzheimers. He had
no funeral,his body was returned home to NYC
and his wife took off. Stratocaster and the Super 400 and the D'Angelico.

He was buried in an unmarked grave.His brother Lou was ill with heart trouble and he had no resources to give John a decent funeral or a viewing.

He died no remebering anything..so when I read what a Forum member posted, about a boot
legged CD..I felt the blood rush to my head.

I want all of you to know what I have planned. Those who are doing that CD will have to comepete against ME.. The Japanese are well known for their quality and workmanship,but they didnt put the blood and sweat that we did so many years ago.

The whoever the distributor in the USA in California didnt sit through those hot nights
sweating bullets playing tunes over and over and over..till we got what we were after.

If they think they can compete with me,they are sadly mistaken..you see I could have done what they have done years ago..but I'm an American and I tried doing it the right way and being upfront.

I will sell the HCOA CD for nothing and only ask for a small donation to be put in trust so that I can place a small remeberance on my friends grave. Can they match that???????

I dont think so. I dont own a Japanese guitar
I dont own a Japanese automoblile..No I'm not
at war with the Japanese,they are brilliant I know and I realize how well they can produce TV's Automobiles etc...BUT the one thing they are NOT going to do,,they are NOT
going to deprive me of the dream that Johnny had.

The HCOA Lp was born in this country and dammit its going to stay right here no matter
what it takes and how much it costs me.
I have little money for this project,,and we were lousy businessmen anyhow..so If I lose some money so what..I want to do what I am going to do.

The Japs have the right stuff, but I have one better and they will soon find that to be a fact." Copyright © 2003 Jody Carver <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>[This message was edited by Joey Ace on 31 May 2003 at 02:55 PM.]

John P. Phillips · Post by **John P. Phillips** » 31 May 2003 1:21 pm

Jody, my precious friend,
I'm just a nobody too. But I can feel your burning desire all the way down here in Georgia.I don't know about Johnny being a great guy, I never had the chance to meet him but if you say so, that's endorsement enough for me. I do know tho, that he was a great guitarist because I've heard him play via HCOA.(thanks to DVA for that pleasure.)
The copy of HCOA that I burned to CD for you was straight off of DVA's "live 365" website and was a one of a kind,as far as I know, labor of love from me to you, in appreciation for all you did to help me in my quest to obtain my first steel guitar.(and that's another long Jody type story in itself HEHEHE!!!)

My friend, you can count on me for any assistance that I can be, in whatever small way, to revive "THE DREAM". If it wasn't meant to happen in Johnny's life time, maybe we can make it come true for him.
Please keep us posted on the progress because a lot of us really do care.
LUV YA MY FRIEND !!

------------------
JUST 'CAUSE I STEEL, DON'T MAKE ME A THIEF

[This message was edited by John P.Phillips on 31 May 2003 at 02:24 PM.][This message was edited by John P.Phillips on 31 May 2003 at 02:28 PM.]

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 31 May 2003 4:23 pm

Thanks Jody for that passionate and historical response.

This sort of thing (bootleg CDs and the like) are a big problem, I have friends with record labels or performers like Jody who have rights to certain releases and sessions that are being issued in Japan.
The problem with Japan is that they have a totally different copyright system, after 25 years the copyright runs out in Japan.

So we have a case where someone has the masters, or even a copy of the LP, etc.. they clean it up and reissue it.
This is quite common for Blues, old timey, psyche, rock, pop, punk and so on.
A lot of smaller specialty labels can't aford the time and expense to sue a Japanese Co. for this sort of thing, and in many cases the UK, US or European labels end up rushing out their own legit version so as to compete and hopefully replace the bootleg in the local marketplace.

The Japanese style bootlegging is quite different to the other larger countries and trends with their bootlegs. China for example, has a masive bootleg industry, but in their case it's mainly their bootleggers running off cheap illegal copies of current hit albums and the like. These violate Western and Chinese copyright laws, so once every five years or so the Chinese govt. has a crackdown. No doubt some of us have seen the footage of Chinese officials presiding over the scene of thousands of boot CDs being crushed by rollers.

As much as the Japanese CDs are a violation, they do generate a market and create an enviroment where labels can put out product.
This of course is no consolation to those who should get copyright on the albums, songs, etc.
I don't buy boots, I bought a few when I was quite young, but now I can't go there.

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 31 May 2003 5:10 pm

Johnny's 56 "Mary Kay" Strat is still around. Here's a recent picture.

Owner's name withheld.

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 31 May 2003 5:56 pm

The copy of HCOA that I burned to CD for you was straight off of DVA's "live 365" website and was a one of a kind,as far as I know, labor of love from me to you

If indeed this is true, the sound quality has got to be inferior to any true CD copy of the LP. The Live 365 broadcast was created from low bandwidth quality MP3's, specifically for the purpose of webcast to let folks get an inkling of the talent of the group, and as an adjunct to my HCOA Tribute website.

I am disquieted by someone "recording" off a webcast, and moreso that it would become a CD.
I now understand why Jody asked me to discontinue the tunes-in-their-entirety webcast.

I look forward to Jody being able to bring this album to life in CD format with the highest possible fidelity. THAT is the tribute Jody and Johnny (and Augie and George) truly deserve.

I am proud to have been involved in highlighting the acheivments of Jody and his companions, seeking him out to try and document a bit of the history of this Unique American Music Album Rarity which captured my attention by virtue of happenstance and luck.

Good luck Jody, and I hope you know how I feel about you by now

oh

and

[This message was edited by Dave Van Allen on 31 May 2003 at 06:58 PM.][This message was edited by Dave Van Allen on 31 May 2003 at 07:00 PM.]

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 31 May 2003 7:27 pm

Thank you Dave for your kind words which is always the norm for your comments for Johnny
and myself and the other fellows.

It is no secret that it was YOU who lit the
fire under me to get this project under way.
I have been dragging my feet getting this accomplished,my attempt at getting the problem resolved with the present company has not faired well.

I will make every effort I can to see this become a reality, but since YOU were the main
man who was instrumental getting me started again, I am going to ask for your help. I need it and I know you have the capabilities
to see me through this.

I owe you my friend,I will be in touch with you.

My thanks for all you have done, and I will ask for your help if and when we can get together. My reason for posting a reply to your comments was because I want everyone to know it was you who helped us and expressed interest and made up that beautiful web site for the HCOA. You deserve the thanks and appreciation I feel you earned. I cant thank you enough. I'm sure everyone on this Forum is aware that it was your effort that made this possible.

I sure hope it happens soon. Thanks to YOU.

Be well and my best to you and yours

Jody, and I know I know...Its FENDER OF COURSE.

Thank you.

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 31 May 2003 at 09:58 PM.]

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 1 Jun 2003 7:32 am

Jason
Thank you for your valued information,I was
not aware of the depth of this topic. I find your comments very interesting as usual.

Thank you, I appreciate it and any other ideas you have you can e mail me at home.Thank You.
jOdy

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 1 Jun 2003 1:16 pm

Hi Jody and Dave, et al.
I have won an auction for a copy of this record. I wanted to hear Jody play in his prime.
When I saw that old cowboy Fender promo pic of him I said.. I gotta her this dude play.

I posted that I hoped to clean it up and send a few copies to the forum store for Jody's benefit. Just cover my CD blanks and shipping from over the pond.
The time and work is on me.

Thinking a nice dinner out for Jody with the wife, and a chance to lift a glass and toast Johnny's memory etc.

And then I see there is a project in the works already. But from web mp3's.

Ok 1st off I know Jody isn't in this for the money and definitely not to profit at the expense of forumites either.

But he is justly proud of the work he and Johnny did so many years ago, and it does deserve to be heard. Not proud in an arogant way, but with modesty.. they done good.

I don't like bootlegs, but some things are lost except for some bootlegs. Out of print and so low market they would never get done otherwise.

I will still digitize this and send it to Jody's designated CD project manager : Joey or Dave maybe.

There is a scratch on the 1st cut... I can work on that I think, but I haven't gotten the record yet so I can't be sure what I can do.

There are special plug-ins for restoration work, but I don't normally do this a lot and don't have them, but there are ways to tweek things better anyway..
I have done forensic restoration for the NYC Legal Aid Society, so this is not foreign to me.

If they like my versions, they can use them with my compliments.

But rest assured it is for the music that Johnny and Jody created and not some mercenary get rich scheme percolating in somebodys head.

And when it's done, I will frame the Hot CLub of America album with a Hot Club of France Album I also have, side by side.
I think Johnny would have liked that.

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 1 Jun 2003 6:25 pm

Please re-read the thread D L D

The project in the works is NOT from mp3's... that was apparently a one-off done by a fan. I hope so.

The CD Jody is working on releasing will be from a pristine copy of album or the original tapes.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 2 Jun 2003 1:14 am

That's very good to hear. The original tapes would be wondefull.

Bear in mind that at their age the tapes will likely need to be baked by an expert to re-attach the metal particles to the backing.

Then re recorded once or twice to newer media.
Baked BEFORE it is just put on a tape machine and tried out.

At this age the substrait is weakened.
A perfect copy of the record would be great.
Any small clicks and pops can be dealt with also. Restoration is not rocket science, but can do wonderfull things for old recordings.
And not lose the original sense of the recording.

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 3 Jun 2003 8:09 pm

My tribute as Joey makes reference to was not
meant to stir anyone's idea that I was looking for a financial gain from this project. I told what I know of John's situation the last days of his life.

There were many happy times and laughs and friendship we all shared together,it is not all negative as those who have e mailed me think it was.They are reading what they want to read and not what I meant it to be.

Whatever Johnny did he was the captain of his
ship,he made his decisions and unfortunatly
they didnt work out as he planned.

It is of no importance,but to those who e mailed me,,I can answer their questions out in the open and not through e mail.

He didnt do drugs,,he didnt smoke,he didnt drink,his biggest habit was his love for Italian food and most of all his music.He was not a womanizer his love was his guitar.

He was the king of his castle, he helped those who needed help,he cared for people,he gave lessons and never charged any money for his time or knowledge. He did it because he was what he was and nothing more. He liked people and was genuine.

I receive e mail questioning the manner in which David posted his appreciation for our
music,I am NOT looking for a financial gain here, this is NOT a scam,thats not what I am
all about,and those of you who are of the idea that I'm doing this for the money are dead wrong and brain dead as well.

If those of you have your doubt as to what this is intended to be,why dont those of you
post your questions and gut feelings so that
others can answer what David meant regarding
"few bucks" to pay for dinner for myself and
my wife. I undertand David's generous gesture
but I dont need money to take my wife to dinner.

Please dont let what was intended to be a sincere tribute to a fine human being turn into an ugly situation.

Most all of you dont know me and more than likely never will,there will be a detailed story of my life and times with Johnny and the other fellows and most often than not,we
had a great time just being together.

I am well aware of the so called bootlegging
scenario and that cant be stopped at least not by me. Jason makes reference to bootlegging which I am well aware of. I had that experience during my days with Fender where people changed the serial number plate that was on the body that held the neck in place until Fender then had new plates made which had the Fender "F" logo engraved on the plate and those who changed those plates with bogus replacements soon found that in doing so were infringing on Fenders patents and trade mark. That put an end to that.

I have many memories and stories of all I have had the good fortune of being there when it happened.The Good the bad and the Ugly. There were very few if any ugly times in my lifetime,,sad yes but not ugly.

Please to those of you who e mailed me meaning well, understand.I dont want money.
No matter what,all I am looking to do is have this recording made up so I can feel that I accomplished something we were not able to do back then. If I receive any contributions I will send them back. If I see
a letter which may contain a contribution, I will refuse the mail.

Please dont e mail me, I am not to be pitied
I have a good life and I will continue to extend my good fortune to those who will read
my stories of the good times and dont any of you dwell on the negatives.

Sure Johnny died without any money,but he was richer than most during his life by people who cared for him that was his reward.
His heart was his bank and fortune.
That was his pot of gold. Those that knew him as I did paid him back many times over just by being his friend. He had no idea who or what he was at the end,he died a rich man
for those who remembered him as he was.

So please,be my friend's and understand what I am saying. Sure I need help getting this project off the ground and I doubt many will be sold if any, But it is the principle and nothing else.

Try to understand please this is not a get rich scheme as a few suggested or a pyramid.
The only pyramid I'm looking for is that the music that John loved can be heard by those
he would have loved to have known enjoyed what he did,so that each person that enjoys his effort can tell another who tells another and so on. And that alone is his and my reward.

My wife and family is my pot of gold as are
my memories.

Thank you. edited for mis spelled words sorry[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 03 June 2003 at 09:40 PM.]

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 3 Jun 2003 8:56 pm

Eloquently put, Jody.
It's about the music.
It's meant as a tribute to a great guitar picker, and Jody's good friend. I wish I could have met him.

Why folks seem to read more into stuff than exists is beyond my understanding. Are we so full of suspicion of our fellow humans that there HAS to be an ulterior motive to every little thing?

Yes there is evil in the world, on a scale from 0 to 9/11. Let's worry about REAL dangers. There are enough we don't have to invent any...

Pyramid my Mellinium Eye

nick allen · Post by **nick allen** » 4 Jun 2003 12:43 am

... and eloquently put, Dave, also

I for one am looking forward to a CD appearing, whether it's a full-scale commercial release or a "private, Forum-only" circulation "for educational purposes".
(And, as much as I and many others reading this Forum will want the record, I have to say I doubt whether it will be a major mass-market moneymaker... or even a multiple millionselling moolah manufacturer...).
I just hope those of you involved manage to cover your costs

.
Nick

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 4 Jun 2003 2:24 am

Jody has said it quite elquently I agree.

It is a quite distressing that some so grossly misread what I was saying, I thought clearly.
Actually seeing the exact OPPOSITE of what I was saying..
and english IS my 1st language...go figure.

I never implied Jody needed the money or was even looking for it.
I know Jody understood what I meant and it's unfortunate others did not.

A night out with the wife and a toast to Johhny was just "MY thoughts" on something I could give back to Jody,
for being such a nice gentleman and entertaining me with his posts and dedications.

DLD

Ok 1st off I know Jody isn't in this for the money and definitely not to profit at the expense of forumites either.

I just wonder how this above can be misconstrued to the point someone would distress Jody about it.
That being the LAST thing I had intended...

DVA

Why folks seem to read more into stuff than exists is beyond my understanding. Are we so full of suspicion of our fellow humans that there HAS to be an ulterior motive to every little thing?

There was no hidden subtext or devious agenda.
MOST certainly not on Jody's part !!! Nor mine.
I made this offer, because I wanted to,
not because anyone else, including Jody, asked me to or implied I should.

The seller of the record to me isn't selling his only copy.. he has his own and wouldn't part with that copy. It's on his all time favorite list.

I e-mailed him a copy of the story of the album and Johnny, and he was quite touched,
and said to say hi to Jody. I'd like to send him the Fender promo photo of Jody in western garb, because he would like that too. But I forgot where it is.

A record that gets loved as clearly is the case here, deserves to be heard.
Not lost in the dustbins of history.
What more reason should I have?[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 04 June 2003 at 03:28 AM.]

Chris Forbes · Post by **Chris Forbes** » 4 Jun 2003 4:21 am

Can I assume this will be available through the forum when the project is complete (soon, I hope?)?

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 4 Jun 2003 4:55 am

I'd like to send him the Fender promo photo of Jody in western garb, because he would like that too. But I forgot where it is.

it's here!

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 4 Jun 2003 5:09 am

DVA merci. I saw that one, but there was a big one of Jody, and that's the one I was thinking of. But this ones cool too.

He'll apreciate the company Jody keeps.. as I do.
I will foward this one to Will.
Who said
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>david, wow!! that is so great. i really appreciate the info. quite a guy and such a wld album. seems like i can never turn the volume high enouogh on it.

anyway, glad to see he's still in circulation and hope very much he knows he has a rabid, if tiny, fan base for his album.

bye for now. -W <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 04 June 2003 at 06:15 AM.]

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 4 Jun 2003 5:59 am

once again:

A link to dva's " Hot Club of America in Hi-Fi " tribute site with pix, info etc...

------------------

"I AM Z-BOY!"

Zumsteel U12 "Loafer" 8&6 :: ZB Custom D-10

:: Fender Tube Amplification
www.voicenet.com/~vanallen/ :: vanallen@voicenet.com :: www.lasttrainhome.com::
My Live365 Broadcast

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 7 Jun 2003 10:46 am

...geez, I wuz just talkin' about unlicensed releases that avoid copyright...

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 12 Jun 2003 2:42 pm

Forumite Bill Easton has e mailed me and told
me of a story of "The Mary Kaye" Stratocaster
of which there is a nice story of Johnny Cucci. This is in the latest "Vintage Guitar
Issue" I have not as yet seen this.

FYI only who are interested.

Thank you Bill.