This Really Ticks Me Off.....

Jody Cameron · Post by **Jody Cameron** » 15 Dec 2002 3:57 pm

I've been seeing Shania's new video "Gonna Getcha Good" on CMT - I was glad to hear steel in an obvious "pop" song...definately NOT country, but I thought it was really good to have steel reach a wider audience; THEN I saw the same video on VH1 and guess what? NO STEEL! The steel part had been taken out of the mix replaced by a frickin' synthesizer!

JC

I'm all for taking steel into new territory, but how will it ever get there when producers pull this kind of CRAP?!

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 15 Dec 2002 4:24 pm

That's standard procedure today, unfortunately. The record company did the same thing with Shenia's monster hit "You're Still the One". One mix for country air play (with steel solo) and another mix for pop radio (with keyboard solo). I think the steel version was on the CD however.

It's all about marketing, sales, and image.

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My Site - Instruction | Doug's Free Tab | Steels and Accessories

Joe Miraglia · Post by **Joe Miraglia** » 15 Dec 2002 4:51 pm

Jody , if 2,000 weekend warriors play a 4 hour gig on their steel at their local clubs or what ever for 200 people that would be 400,000 that would see and hear the STEEL GUITAR.Maybe it's up to us if we can get out and play.I'm 63 years old and playing with a new country group--trying to do my part.Yes, it also makes me mad what the producers are doing today.It makes me want to play all the harder.Joe

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 15 Dec 2002 7:28 pm

Well Jody, I knew that 2 versions of the CD were going to be released and had no problem with that or the music...but I never thought about the fact that some markets, mostly the young people, will be cheated out of hearing the nice steel work on the "country" version. That's unfortunate for them AND the steel. Thanx for bringing that to light. Course this has happened several times before.
Seems there is no stopping the pursuit of the almighty dollar......to any end.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 15 Dec 2002 8:17 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>It's all about marketing, sales, and image.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No its not. Its all about some weasels in suits trying to look like they are doing something in order to keep there jobs being well paid parasites. The general public has no idea what instruments are being played or even if instruments are being played for that matter and they don't care.

Its guys working in radio and marketing whose basic career is taking turns jerking each other off. They need to to have something to make decisions about so that they can seem important to each other.

The guys at VH1 are super retarded about that stuff.

Bob

Jody Cameron · Post by **Jody Cameron** » 15 Dec 2002 8:29 pm

Yeah! You Go Bob Hoffnar!! HeHe.
JC

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 15 Dec 2002 9:42 pm

I agree with you Bob, but I do think the steel guitar is stereotyped... always has been. Those weasels in suits would never allow a pedal steel mix to get through to pop radio. Sure, they're trying to feel important, but I still believe that when people hear a pedal steel they think "country"... and that's what the suits want to avoid.

Most people don't know what a steel guitar is, but they recognize that twangy sound. I once heard someone ask... "what is that sickening whine in country music?"

He couldn't have been referring to me... I was just a kid at the time!

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 15 Dec 2002 9:45 pm

Don't hold back, Bob. Tell us how you really feel.

David Farlow · Post by **David Farlow** » 16 Dec 2002 1:09 am

I have heard both versions also and obviously prefer the one with the Steel Guitar on it. Unfortunately, IMHO, I don't think the general listening public would recognize the Pedal steel in that song due to it's uncharacteristic sound, not the typical steel sound that most of the public "thinks" the pedal steel should sound like. Too bad the record producers have these pre-conceived ideas about the PSG and the general public, they might be surprised if they would give PSG a chance, especially with some of the PSG recording talent around. I still believe we have a great future with PSG.

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Dave Birkett · Post by **Dave Birkett** » 16 Dec 2002 2:04 am

I think we now know what formulaic music is.

Ernie Renn · Post by **Ernie Renn** » 16 Dec 2002 2:57 am

This is sort of the same reason the general public doesn't even know what a steel guitar is.

A guy walked up to the stage last night and wanted to know what it was that I was playing. It crossed my mind to say Electric Cheese Slicer or something like that, but I told him and he said, in his "hippest" voice, "Cool!"

The night before that one of the waitresses came up to the stage and just stood and looked at my steel. I leaned out towards her, (to take a request or something,) and she said, "I've never seen one of these up close before." Really?

If they're not given the chance to hear one, how could they know anything about it. On a more positive note, they both really liked it.

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My best,
Ernie

The Official Buddy Emmons Website
www.buddyemmons.com

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 16 Dec 2002 8:13 am

Over the years I've gotten comments from listeners about my... flat guitar, slide, synthesizer, string guitar, table guitar, ... it goes on and on. One guy even called it an Iron guitar.

It's good to see that the Sacred Steel players are starting to break out and expose the steel guitar to wider audiences. I think they deserve a lot of credit. The Robert Randolph phenomenon is good proof that young people will accept the steel guitar per se, they just don't want to hear country music played on it.

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My Site - Instruction | Doug's Free Tab | Steels and Accessories

Randy Pettit · Post by **Randy Pettit** » 16 Dec 2002 8:42 am

I doubt anyone has learned much anything about steel guitars or music in general from music videos. That's NOT their purpose - after all, they're not instructional videos. I don't expect Shania or even George Stait to teach anyone about steel guitar. To echo previous comments, only steel players getting out and playing will continue to spread the love of steel.

Like Doug mentioned, it's often tempting for me to give the smart-alec answers when you're approached by someone. But I figure there's a multiplier effect for every person "educated" about steel. Once I explain to someone how it works, now they can tell others later on, "Hey, that's a pedal steel guitar. I've seen and heard one up close. You use a bar and it has pedal and knee level to change the pitch of certain strings..." Play them a jazzy/bluesy lick that doesn't reinforce the country stereotype. I guess my point is that it's up to us players - not Shania.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 16 Dec 2002 8:59 am

Play them a jazzy/bluesy lick that doesn't reinforce the country stereotype.

I always make a point to do that if I'm in the presence of folks who've never seen a steel guitar, like most jazz guys around here, etc. As soon as I sit down to my axe, the first thing they'll hear from me is a little C6 jazz warmup, not what they thought they were gonna hear. Only later on do they (maybe) discover that "Oh, that's the thing that makes that whiney noise". But only after they've heard what else it can do.

JB Arnold · Post by **JB Arnold** » 16 Dec 2002 9:09 am

Shania probably doesn't have much say over what goes to VH-1 anyway, and may not care. And Bob's comments are pretty much on the money-that's EXACTLY what the radio biz is like. VH-1 also wanted the Dixie Chicks to do a mix of thier first videos without the banjo and fiddle. Chicks told them to shove it. But, to be fair, VH-1 makes no claim to be country, and wants NOTHING to do with that image. It kills them with their demographic. I never watch it, because they rarely have anything I like on. But they are pretty clear upfront that if you want to air on their station, the fiddles, banjos, steels, hats, and trucks gotta go. That's just how it is. If you want to be a crossover artist, then you do it. Trust me, Mutt and Shania already had that mix in the can, knowing they'd need it. I think they should be commended for having the steel so prominent on the major release.

The 2 cd's with different mixes idea is so good it's going to catch on. It's what Faith Hill SHOULD have done with Cry. She tried to be all things to all people and wound up alienating everyone. Look for more of this in the future.

JB

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Fulawka D-10 9&5
Mullen Royal Precision D-10 8 & 5
"All in all, looking back, I'd have to say the best advice anyone ever gave me was 'Hands Up, Don't Move!"
www.johnbarnold.com/pedalsteel
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http://www.nrpsmusic.com/index.html

Michael Haselman · Post by **Michael Haselman** » 16 Dec 2002 9:24 am

After we got done playing on Sat. night, a 22-year-old was talking to me about how she enjoyed the band. Just for giggles, I pointed at my steel and asked her what she thought that was. She said, "it's a zither, isn't it?" I laughed and signed her drumstick that she got from the drummer "Mike the zither player."

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Marrs D-10, Webb 6-14E[This message was edited by Michael Haselman on 16 December 2002 at 12:26 PM.]

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 16 Dec 2002 9:38 am

Doug,
The marketing and radio leeches are way more stupid than you think. Pedalsteel even sounding as country as it can get is fine when the music comes out of LA, NY or London. VH1 plays music with steel on it regularly with no problem if the artist is Clapton, Dire Straights, Sting, Beck, KD Lang and all sorts of other artists. This is because they do not know or care what a pedalsteel is or what it sounds like. If the music comes from Nashville they want the steel off as a matter of corporate politics. To the business guys in the entertainment industry how the music actually sounds means absolutely nothing. The different mix thing is just a hoop that radio likes to make people jump through. That way some dweeb in a building someplace can have something to write a report about. After the rats are done taking there pieces of flesh off the tune on its way to the airways the real dude shows up that gets the payola.
The current price to get a tune on the radio is a hair under a quarter million dollars.

Bob[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 16 December 2002 at 09:48 AM.]

Ernie Renn · Post by **Ernie Renn** » 16 Dec 2002 10:27 am

George Strait is more likely, however, than Shania Twain. I have seen a steel guitar in a Strait video, but not in a Twain video.

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My best,
Ernie

The Official Buddy Emmons Website
www.buddyemmons.com

Colin Goss · Post by **Colin Goss** » 16 Dec 2002 10:57 am

Shania played in the UK Variety show in front of HM the Queen. No steel. She sang Getcha good. It was hard to tell who was the lead artist as the "backing" musicians were all "fronting". I gather that the CD released in the UK is the one without steel. Sometimes I think we are fighting a losing battle.

Randy Pettit · Post by **Randy Pettit** » 16 Dec 2002 12:05 pm

I wonder if these kinds of discussions take place on the bassoon or cello forums???

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 16 Dec 2002 12:17 pm

She said, "it's a zither, isn't it?"

The thing that always gets me about that comment is this: you regularly run into people, even young people like this young lady, who ask if it's a "zither". Now, where the hell are they coming across ZITHERS, fercryinoutloud?? Geez, I've never even seen a freakin' "zither", and everybody seems to think that's what I play?? Sheesh! You mean to tell me that the pedal steel guitar, used for over 50 years as a mainstay of country music, plus spillover into pop, jazz, etc. is less familiar to some Americans than is a freakin' ZITHER?? Gimme a break!!

Michael Haselman · Post by **Michael Haselman** » 16 Dec 2002 12:25 pm

Actually, the only reason I asked her is I could tell she didn't have a clue what a steel guitar was. So for my own amusement I wanted to see what she came up with. As my bandmates and I were laughing quite loudly at her expense, she took it well. Zither. That's a first.

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Marrs D-10, Webb 6-14E

Randy Pettit · Post by **Randy Pettit** » 16 Dec 2002 12:58 pm

Maybe "zither" is the default musical instrument response, like "mauve" or "taupe" when you really don't know what color it is. Like Jim, I've never seen or heard a zither, neither hither nor thither.

"Did you see that guy playing the taupe zither?"

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 16 Dec 2002 1:35 pm

i'm not too surprised when Europeans ask what that instrument is, but i would have thought that more Americans know
what it is - what it is - what it is -
are'nt we lucky after all to be able to promote this often heard, but rarely seen insrument ?
Bob H->

Onward Brethren
Forgive them for they just don't know
what it is -what it is - what it is

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Steel what?

seldomfed · Post by **seldomfed** » 16 Dec 2002 3:01 pm

Sage Harmos and I played a Christmas house concert last night. He had his Harmos steel tuned like Sacred Steel and I had my Berkley tuned to C13. There was a young gentleman there who plays horn in a local Ska,Reggae band that was very interested in the steels. He asked all kinds of questions about how the tunings worked, how you could play chords and melodies and seemed quite facinated. He especially liked the sounds and tone. We didn't play much true country stuff. Just a little steel on some old tunes , some Hawaiian tunes and Christmas tunes. In the right context people are very open to learning more. BUT he really had no clue what we were doing before we talked.
chris

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Chris Kennison
Ft. Collins, Colorado
"There is no spoon"
www.seldomfed.com