Texas Music ......NOT

Steve Stallings · Post by **Steve Stallings** » 1 Oct 2001 10:14 am

I played a job Saturday night at the Waller County Fair. We played the first hour and a half, then Jack Ingram came on for an hour and a half. Then we played again. I really was looking forward to this as I had been told, this guy is "real Texas music".

My first inkling something may be amiss, comes when I read the stage plot for the sound company and realize he doesn't carry a steel guitar in his act. We had two separate stages...sorta side by side.
We play our set...well, we ain't a pure country band, but we do a lot of stuff with great steel parts. (Since my recent anti-top forty rant, we've added some classic country and songs like "Just Playin Possum". Anyway, we played...massive crowd, that really got into it.

Jack comes on...loud, very loud. Very muddy mix with shrill midrange. His band is good for what they do with guitar, bass, and drums. Jack proceeds to drink as much beer as he possibly can, becoming more and more vocally agitated as the night wears on. Obviously intoxicated and slurring his words, he finishes his set and departs the stage. There is essentially no call from the audience for him to return, yet he comes back up on stage and delivers a drunken rant that boils down to this.."My name is Jack Ingram, and I play Country Music"...not that Sh** you hear on the radio". Pathetic...
At this point, groups of people started coming up to our side of the stage asking if we could just start playing again. We couldn't so we all got to listen to another thirty minutes of loud, drunken vocals.
We finally started playing and finished out the night. I really was dissapointed at them, but had a good time playing.
To make for a better night, I got a call on my cell phone at 3am while driving home. We had just been booked for a job on the 21st with the Hag...somehow that made it ok

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Steve Stallings
Bremond, Texas

Steve Stallings · Post by **Steve Stallings** » 1 Oct 2001 10:41 am

Scooby,
Jack is a Texas "artist" who has two CDs out on MCA and one on Sony. He also is on a live CD with Charlie and Bruce Robison. He seems to be popular with the under 25 crowd.

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Steve Stallings
Bremond, Texas

Chris Schlotzhauer · Post by **Chris Schlotzhauer** » 1 Oct 2001 11:30 am

Steve, I'm not sure what your definition is of "real Texas Music" is, but if you think it's fiddles and steel and the like, not necessarily. If you look at what's drawing the huge crowds in Texas, you will see the likes of Jack, Robert Keen, Pat Green, Cory Morrow, Charlie Robison, Bruce Robison, Max Stalling, and I could go on and on. All these guys musically are differnt as night and day, and yes, they do cater to a younger crowd. BTW, Jerry Jeff, Ray Wylie Hubbard, Rusty Weir and Willie cater to that same young crowd, therefore all these acts tend to be hard rockin', drinkin', in your face loud music. You be the judge if you like it or not. I've played with all of the afforementioned. Some I like, some I don't. If these artists are put in the wrong venue for what they do (such as the apparent case you mentioned), people don't get it. My point here is if the music in Texas that the masses are buying, attending, and listening to isn't "real Texas Music", what is your definition?

Steve Stallings · Post by **Steve Stallings** » 1 Oct 2001 11:56 am

Chris,
Heck, I don't know what real Texas music is. I do know that we've played with Willie and Jerry Jeff and really enjoyed it. I think Charlie Robison is a great artist. We play "My Home Town" and "You Aint the Best" as part of our show. We also do "The Road Goes on Forever"& London Homesick Blues. We kick every show with a rocking swing version of "Take These Chains" (fun C6!). I guess, I was just dissapointed with Jack. He would have been much better just a few db lower and a six pack less. I really feel that steel would have helped him out a bunch. Don't get me wrong...his band was top notch, just way over the comfort level in volume. I'm not sqeamish about volume, we run 16 JBL Cabs with about 25,000 watts of power amps. However, we are careful with upper db levels and our FOH guy uses a meter to keep tabs.
The very young people in the crowd, for the most part seemed to enjoy him. Out of several thousand, that was probably about two or three hundred. I don't know about venue mismatch...I think most people just got tired of listening to someone slurring their words and generally acting like a drunk. Just my opinion:)

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 1 Oct 2001 12:23 pm

"The very young crowd likes their music very loud." A lotta people have a bone to pick, but that only goes over well when the majority of the audience agrees. When they don't, it's best to just shut up and play. I tend to judge people by attitude, as well as by their music, but I'm clearly in the minority. Ever notice that some of the stars with the biggest "attitudes" have the most popularity?

Sad, but true.

Chris Schlotzhauer · Post by **Chris Schlotzhauer** » 1 Oct 2001 12:25 pm

How do you know Jack was acting?

Was it Lone Star Beer? I guess that makes it "Texas".

Steve Stallings · Post by **Steve Stallings** » 1 Oct 2001 12:49 pm

ha! come to think of it, I don't think it was an act. Too many beer cans/bottles on stage.LOL Jack was using the same guy who has been doing FOH for Bill Pekars and Back stage Sound out of BCS. I know that they were pegging the meters in the 120 db range.
I and my wife sat off stage behind their mains and listened where it wasn't too bad.
His band is actually quite talented, about what you would expect from a touring act.
I noticed his band came over and watched us play until we finished up. They seemed like nice enough guys. Maybe I'm being a little hypercritical because he didn't have a steel player. I possibly may be a little biased

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Steve Stallings
Bremond, Texas

Bill Fulbright · Post by **Bill Fulbright** » 1 Oct 2001 1:32 pm

Being originally and (several other times) from Beaumont, Texas, I would have thought that Texas Music included:

Ernest Tubb,
George Jones
(originally from Vidor, Texas),
Bob Wills
(a guitarist from Beaumont who played with the Texas Playboys named Billy Carter took me under his wing when I was but a pup),
Dewey Groom (w/Jr. Knight)
Maurice Anderson
Johnny Gimble
Herb Remington
Dale Watson
Clay Blaker
Herb Steiner
Lee Roy Parnell
etc., etc.,

......

Still in So. FLA

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Bill Fulbright
1998 Sierra U12 7x5; Gibson ES-165; Peavey 50-410
ICQ# 2251620 Bill's Launch Pad

Larry Miller · Post by **Larry Miller** » 1 Oct 2001 3:15 pm

Wasn't Charlie Robison the one who dissed Brad Paisley?

Steve Stallings · Post by **Steve Stallings** » 1 Oct 2001 5:05 pm

Larry,
I had not heard that. I can't imagine what he would find objectional to Brads traditional approach. go figure.

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Steve Stallings
Bremond, Texas

Glenn Suchan · Post by **Glenn Suchan** » 2 Oct 2001 5:41 am

Steve,

About the new Texas Music (Jack, Cory, Pat, Robert Earl, etc.): I play steel with the Kevin Fowler Band and we are catagorized in this same group (although our music is much more traditionally country sounding). We play many shows to the same audiences that crowd Jack Ingram's, Cory Morrow's, Pat Green's, etc. One thing I've discovered about this crowd is that they are accepting music other than what is promoted on top 40 play lists. Be it rock, pop, R&B, or country. They are making their own choices of what they want musically. Not what the major labels and "Billboard" magazine are pushing. That's a very healthy indicator for music in general.

About the artists: Sure, much of the aforementioned music is different from classic honky-tonk; sure many of these artists owe alot of their sound to those that came before them (Townes Van Zandt, Jerry Jeff, Guy Clark) but Texas music is not defined by country, alone. Much less, honky-tonk.

The good thing about these artists is that they are traveling a "different road" than most of the nationally known artists and providing alternative choices which could be the traditions of the future. Musically, what's happening in Texas these days is very similar to what happened in the mid seventies with the "Outlaw" country sound which rocketed the careers of Willie Nelson, Waylon Jennings, Jerry Jeff Walker and many others.

Although my personal tastes in music may not include all of the current Texas music artists, I think they all are trying to create their own styles. And that's what's making Texas a very exciting place to be (musically) today. Many major label reps feel the same way.

Keep on pickin'!
Glenn www.kevinfowler.com

Steve Stallings · Post by **Steve Stallings** » 2 Oct 2001 7:30 am

Glen,
I've no problem with the vast majority of the new wave of Texas artists, many of them produced by Lloyd Maines. In fact, I like Pat Greens stuff quite a bit, though I understand he doesn't carry a steel to replicate his studio sound. I've not seen him live. My comments were in fact directed at infantile drunken excess and volume levels which exceeded any semblance of a normal concert. We do similar jobs on a routine basis (county fairs,street dances,etc) and don't see this. We played as Granger Smiths (Sony-Tree) band at Shadow Canyon about six months ago. If you play with Kevin, I suspect you've been here in the Northgate area. Thousands of young college age kids jammed his concert. No drunken drivel from the stage, and loud but sane volume.
My initial rant

really had very little to do with Jacks music. I happen to like tons of different stuff like AC/DC, Blink 182, Emilio, Bob Wills, Gary Nunn, Jackson Browne,
James Taylor, Greatfull Dead, NRPS, Nickel Creek, George (All of em-even Bush)Johnny Rodrigues, Johnny Bush, Garth, Alan, Ray Price.....and on and on. I don't dislike Jacks music. It's his act I had a problem with. I of course, prefer stuff with cool steel parts

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Steve Stallings
Bremond, Texas

Tony Palmer · Post by **Tony Palmer** » 2 Oct 2001 12:22 pm

I like Jack Ingram....I've seen him live
up here in New England once and have his 2 CD's (with Milo Deering on steel.
It's too bad he spoiled the show with the too-loud sound and booze.
Maybe that's why he's not more famous...... [This message was edited by Tony Palmer on 02 October 2001 at 01:24 PM.]

Chris Schlotzhauer · Post by **Chris Schlotzhauer** » 2 Oct 2001 12:44 pm

Glenn nailed it about Texas Music. And Steve, the title of your post is "Texas Music-Not", so it appeared you had an issue with the music. About the drinking on stage, it's become part of the act. And LOUD IS GOOD!

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 2 Oct 2001 2:32 pm

About the drinking on stage, it's become part of the act

Chris, I really can't recall when it wasn't a part of the "act." Only thing, we weren't acting!

Then again, I never worked for Tony Douglas*.

Johnny Lyon* was as close as I got.

(note to Forumites: * only known to central TX steel players)

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Gary Carriger · Post by **Gary Carriger** » 3 Oct 2001 2:50 pm

Bill F -
You are right on your list of Texas Greats - you forgot King George however. I agree with Chris & Glenn here. The point is not that we don't respect these guys. Been playing for 30 plus years - and have all the respect for those that paved the way. Especially the swingmeisters like Bob Wills, Milton Browne, Hank Thompson, (the list could go on and on).
The current term tossed around "Texas Music" seems to denote these newer artists such as Green, the Robinsons, Morrow, Keen, etc. I have listened to their music with growing appreciation - and have played it.
However, I am growing weary of copping Lloyd's licks (just kidding).
I have a lot of respect for these newer guys for the fact that they are charting their own course - read here "don't need Nashville". By sheer necessitity, they have written their own music - and developed and marketed their own sound. That is what artistic freedom is all about, isn't it?

By the way Herb - I know who Tony D is.

Gary

Bill Fulbright · Post by **Bill Fulbright** » 3 Oct 2001 4:22 pm

Gary,

Yup. You are right. I have known Ray Hubbard since 1980 in Dallas and he has always seemed to survive and come out swingin' whether a concert headliner, State Fair or Austin club date.

These guys all have a special feel for country music. It is more likely the "Austin Sound" we are defining, which is hard, at best to define because it encompasses all the styles!! They have all held the line and survived and even prospered. They also helped break new ground for those who followed.

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Bill Fulbright
1998 Sierra U12 7x5; Gibson ES-165; Peavey 50-410
ICQ# 2251620 Bill's Launch Pad

Jeff Coffell · Post by **Jeff Coffell** » 3 Oct 2001 5:35 pm

Steve

JUST ME ME A 4-4 SHUFFLE. But of course, you know that's my style and believe me it still works in Cen TX. We've been around a while just doin that stuff..MAN I LOVE IT I'M GONNA GET ON MY STEEL AND PLAY SOME RAY PRICE. aAAAAAIN'T IT GREAT?????????????

Plumb Country[This message was edited by Jeff Coffell on 03 October 2001 at 06:36 PM.]

Iain · Post by **Iain** » 4 Oct 2001 2:38 am

I've seen Ingram in Scotland and in Chicago (indoors); good humoured and with a good band. Maybe he just had an off night, but he can be good - honest!
I like that twangy Austin stuff and Charlie Robison's sardonic humour etc

John Russell · Post by **John Russell** » 4 Oct 2001 6:01 pm

Texas music is all over the map these days. Everybody's familiar with the classic stuff but there are new artists doing cool things that sound old and new at the same time. Check out the Hot Club of Cowtown if they come to your town. It's a trio consisting of fiddle, guitar, bass with the first two doubling as singers. No steel but they have recorded with steeler Jeremy Wakefield. These kids can pick! Then there's Austin's own Paul Glasse, jazz, swing mandolinist who is in a class all his own. I know I'm not talkin' about steel guitar per se but the thread was Texas music.

About the above mentioned popular country artists, Morrow, Green, Ingram, etc. There will always be an audience for these guys. It's a tradition begun by Jerry Jeff, Rusty Wier and others back 20-odd years ago. There's a tradition of drinking and dancin' here and that will guarantee there'll be some hell-raisers onstage. I think N-ville has produced plenty of these as well. It ain't my cup of tea really tho' I've backed up some others like this. The truth is, this stuff sells, like it or not. All the hot pickers and mellow acts that I love just get by financially.

It's interesting to read about scenes on the east and west coast that feature your Dawg music, deadheads and new traditionalists. Come to think of it, Nashville is home to some of this too. It's time for steel guitar to show up in some of this. If we can just get past the mud, the blood and the beer.

--JR

Shaan Shirazi · Post by **Shaan Shirazi** » 5 Oct 2001 6:09 am

The organization that's realy pushing "Texas Music" as a radio format is Shane Media out of Houston Texas. A lady there named Katie Key (who seems to have a picture of herself and every country star she's ever met)publishes a weekly chart compiled from the playlists of a bunch of Texas radio staions. You can see the chart at www.texasmusicchart.com to see who falls under the Texas Music heading.

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The Pickin' Paniolo

Steve England · Post by **Steve England** » 5 Oct 2001 7:21 am

I really don't care for the Pat Green, Jack Ingram, Robret Earl Keen style of bands currently popular round here. Their style is too in your face and most of them sing like they are in a pick up truck commercial. There is a formula to writing the kind of songs these guys play. Just remember to mention whiskey, beer, Texas and Padre Island and you won't go far wrong.

Like a lot of you I don't go for this kind of music (although I play my first gig with one of these types tonight). But, having seen Pat Green by accident once, and experiencing exactly what Steve described in his first post (except here the crowd were drunker than the band

), I can concur that these guys are real popular with the college age crowd, there are lots of places in the music for them to shout and hold their beer bottles in the air.

But you know when all is said and done "it don't matter who's in Texas Bob Wills is still the king"

Bill C. Buntin · Post by **Bill C. Buntin** » 8 Oct 2001 3:54 pm

I applied formally for a job with Pat Green's organization. They weren't interested in hiring a steel player. They sent me a nice letter and said they may be hiring a "Utility" player this year.

So many of them that come through where I live don't bring but just the necessities. But the term "In your face" is true. I like Nunn above and beyond all of them. Guess I'll have to move to Austin to get a job in that scene, but I don't know if it would be worth the effort for me. I am conservative about this style of music and I don't think I could like a steady diet of it even if the $$ were right.

John Russell · Post by **John Russell** » 9 Oct 2001 8:50 am

Bill: Not to discourage you moving here, Austin has a several good steel players but there seem to be as many, if not more, in the Georgetown, Temple, College Station area. There might even me more venues for real honky-tonk style music. That's a more traditional scene with dance halls and bands with the traditional fiddle and steel type sound. Around here, Bob Wills is "still the king" but up there it's more likely to be Johnny Bush or Ray Price.
--JR