Bear Family & other reissue lable royalties

KEVIN OWENS · Post by **KEVIN OWENS** » 24 Mar 2001 2:48 pm

I was just wondering, with all this Napster talk, what is the laws about releasing music that is NOT print, like Bear Family and other mostly small European label do. I love the opportunity to have all this music but, do they pay royalties to the people they should or just brush it off. I know that on the Bear Family box set of Ray Price the selections from the "WESTERN STRINGS" lp
are from an lp, not the master tapes (that is not the only time that has happened). I have some European release that are all from 45, lp's and old transcription is this legal?
Just what are the laws? I have many steel 45 and lp's and was wondering how to reissue this stuff and be on the up and up. Example: If I released "WARREN & THE HOEDOWN BOYS" A-SECOND MAN B-HOEDOWN HOP(instrumental) by BUD CARTER ON JAN RECORDS from the late 50's - early 60's, I would expect to pay for using that recording.

I'd really like to find out about this.

Thanks
Kevin
PS sad foot note- Bear Family didn't give Leon Rhodes (I know for a fact) or any of the
other (not sure) Texas Troubadours a copy of the Ernest Tubb box sets that they are featured artist on.
I find that very $hity

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 24 Mar 2001 5:59 pm

Kevin, that opens a whole can of worms. Not that it doesn't need opening...

I wonder if the artists, and/or the songwriters get anything out of those releases. I notice a lot of the K-Tel and other label re-releases are made in countries other the United States, even tho they are sold here. I wonder if that gets around any of the royalty liabilites.

Mitch Drumm · Post by **Mitch Drumm** » 24 Mar 2001 8:00 pm

There have been long discussions of bear's royalties on other forums. the consensus is that bear pays who they are legally required to pay--which usually is whoever controls the label for which the material was originally recorded. in the case of ray price that would be columbia (sony?) in the case of capitol, that would be emi, etc. artists usually are not given anything and not entitled to it for old out of print recordings. if columbia released ray price masters, ray price is not likely to get anything either.

i know some artists are given many copies of their boxed sets for resale (cliff bruner for one).

lots of kvetching about this from artists of course, but i have heard no one contend it is illegal or non-standard.

the euro bootleg labels of course don't license the stuff at all.

copyright issues are different in europe as well.

it is curious about bear using vinyl lps for source material in some cases. there are at least 2 lps within the louis prima box which are obviously mastered from somebody's vinyl copy. the presumption being that the masters are lost.

i think bear is by and large doing a good service, but i wish they would go back to the strict chronological and complete format they once used. many boxed sets within the last few years do not contain an artists complete output within the time period covered--marty robbins and charlie rich for example.

and the typos are aggravating, leading me to think no one is bothering to proofread.
[This message was edited by Mitch Drumm on 24 March 2001 at 08:01 PM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 24 Mar 2001 11:27 pm

I recorded a cassette with a local bandleader about 15 years ago. Tonight I played with him, and he mentioned that he was getting 1500 copies of it on CD and another 1000 cassettes. He makes a lot of money selling them at gigs. Of course, I never see any of that. I only play with him 2 or 3 times a year.

There's a Bud Isaacs import CD that Bud hasn't seen a penny from. They didn't even ask him - they just copied the LP and started selling them.

Bobby Snell · Post by **Bobby Snell** » 25 Mar 2001 8:51 am

Kelvin, sounds like a new career for you---but you will need the big cigar and a diamond pinky ring to be an ol' time record baron!

Seriously, there should be some reputable licensing attorneys near you who can give you a better idea about what is involved....there are no obstacles except money in most cases. And I understand there is a lot of time and long distance communication involved as well.

But what a great legacy you can create! "Owens' Steel Guitar Classics" can fill our shelves...I'll sign up to subscribe to your CD-of-the-month club.

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 25 Mar 2001 7:24 pm

Mitch, I know of some of the discussions that have appeared off this forum, and there were some interesting issues raised.

They are doing a service, and I'm assuming that there are royalties being paid out there for the material they use.
One of the big problems is that musicians and songwriters from the past didn't really set up estates or any proper channels for their heirs to recieve any financial benefit, so it can be quite hard.
I also think there's another issue entirely, like the live recordings, who gets the money from them, as they weren't studio recordings in many cases the sidemen who are represented don't get anything out of it, even if they are showcased on certain numbers. But that's another issue altogether.

I do know someone who has the rights (publishing) to certain Lefty Frizzell tunes, and they didn't get squat from Bear Family?

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 26 Mar 2001 4:02 am

Here's something else to think about on small or limited production projects.

I was told, by someone that is in the music business, that the big licensing agencies such as ASCAP do not pursue the small projects as the cost to collect/administer the royalties would be much more than the actual royalties. In fact he queried one of the licensing agencies and they didn't want to talk to him about the small quantities he would potentially sell.

I've never seen any figures on the amount of sales from reissues, such as the Bear Family series, but they probably are relatively small and one of the reasons the price on them is high.

If someone is selling a CD, with sales of less than 100, it is probably insignificant compared to the major label sales of millions or even a couple hundred thousand (if it doesn't sell a million anymore Nashville considers it a flop).

P Gleespen · Post by **P Gleespen** » 26 Mar 2001 4:48 am

there are at least 2 lps within the louis prima box which are obviously mastered from somebody's vinyl copy.

Hey Mitch, is that Louis Prima box set, one of the "complete recordings of" type sets? How's the quality on the mastered from vinyl cuts?

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 26 Mar 2001 7:19 am

I have to say when all is said and done, even their single sets can be wonderful.
The Ole Rassmussen set they issued in 1999 is fantastic, I wish they had added the 1949 and 1945 non-Capitol singles, but it probably would have put them over the length of one CD anyway.

I know they sell more than a hundred copies, otherwise they'd still be doing one album vinyl setslike other German labels, not CD box sets, but compared to what Nashville wants an artist to sell, it's almost a drop in the ocean.

Mitch Drumm · Post by **Mitch Drumm** » 26 Mar 2001 4:38 pm

The Prima boxed set is the complete Capitol label output, including the solo recordings of both Keely Smith and Sam Butera. Think it is 8 discs, from circa 1955 through 63 or 64.

All the classic carrying on you would expect from Louis and Keely.

You could get a precise track listing at the Bear Family website.

As usual with Bear you get probably an average of 25 recordings per disc.

I noticed an occasional pop and tick on the "live" LPs within the set--one recorded at Lake Tahoe with Gia Maione on vocals, and I think the other was in Vegas with Keely.

The sound is still OK on those portions, just not pristine as you would expect from studio masters.

It leads me to believe that because they were remote recordings rather than studio recordings per se that perhaps Capitol did not retain masters or was not authorized to license them or?? It's peculiar.

P Gleespen · Post by **P Gleespen** » 27 Mar 2001 4:44 am

Thanks for the reply Mitch. I'll have to start saving up my pennies.

Bear Family seems to get a lot of my money, and apparently, from reading this thread, maybe more than they ought to.

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 27 Mar 2001 6:35 am

Despite what I have written and there is a general opinion that it's better to have this stuff reissued than not at all, I certain niggling doubts about Bear Family, but they are definately better than some other companies, who do not do the work and research that BF do, so overall I'd say it's better to support them rather than miss out on some great music.

Mitch, have you noticed how Capitol will lease certain material to other labels, Haggard's a great example, then when it's proven that there's a reasonable interest, they'll revoke the rights and reissue it themselves.