No groove in the fingers?

[Jerry Dragon]

I think I may have asked this before? Anyway, My Dekley has no grooves in the fingers. Some strings go off center when tuned leading to uneven string spacing over the neck? Are all PSGs this way and if so why? It is difficult enough for a beginner like me using finger picks for the first time to hit the right string and the uneven spacing is not helping much? I am a long time member but I don't play enough to call myself anything but a beginner.

[John Larson]

Can you maybe post a picture?

As far as I know the changer should be smooth, having groves on it can cause buzzing that some players encounter if it gets worn.

You should be able to hold the string near the center of the changer finger while tightening it and it should stay in place once tightened. If your picking is moving them I'd guess that the strings are either too loose or maybe you are picking too close to the bridge and moving them.

[Dave Grafe]

As John said, there should be no grooves at all in the changer fingers, any ridges or grooves need to be ground down. The strings are held in place by tension, the shortest distance between nut and finger is across the middle of the finger. If any string is off center you should be able to push it back with your fingernail, if necessary slacking the string slightly.

[Ian Rae]

It's worth mentioning that some modern instruments such as Williams and Excel do have grooves, but they're part of the design.

[Bobby D. Jones]

What is the changer fingers made of on your guitar?

Making sure the strings are in the center of the finger, It is the responsibility of whoever changes strings on the guitar. Many guitars have Aluminum fingers, Which are known to get groves in the soft metal fingers, From the hard steel used in the strings. Groves in the fingers from string pressure and movement can cause problems. Deep groves have to be removed from the fingers, Or strings will make some very strange sounds.

Some guitars have very hard metal in the changer fingers. And do not get groves in the changer fingers.
I own 2 GFI Ultras a Keyed and Keyless model. Both guitars have sintered Stainless Steel changer fingers.
When changing strings you must be very careful to align each string to the center of the finger.
As soon as the string comes snug on the finger, I use a piece of bamboo to align the string in the center of the finger before tightening and tuning the string.

[Jerry Dragon]

I am not sure what the fingers are made of. It is a Dekley so it is not a cheapie. They don;t look warn. I have loosened the strings and centered them up more than once to no avail. Has any company or anyone ever made fingers that have a roller bearing incorporated in them like ones in the nut that the strings come over? That would insure centering. Would that even be feasible? On a lighter note, my spellcheck has recently taken to telling me I am spelling center wrong? How does that happen?

[Donny Hinson]

Before you tune the strings up to their full pitch, you're supposed to make sure they're properly spaced (centered on the fingers). And once they're at full pitch, they should not move.

[Dave Grafe]

Before you tune the strings up to their full pitch, you're supposed to make sure they're properly spaced (centered on the fingers). And once they're at full pitch, they should not move.

What Donny said, once fully tensioned if the strings creep to one side or the other the finger is out of shape, possibly from someone filing at it to remove grooves but probably from years of use.

1) With the string loosened and pushed aside does the finger look smooth and shiny like the others or is the top surface slanted, flattened, pitted, or otherwise misshapen?

2) If you grab the unstrung finger with needle-nosed pliers does it wiggle at all in its pocket or is it snug and tight? If you get any wiggle at all the finger itself is rocking/sliding on its axis from wear to the finger pivot hole, axle cross-shaft, or both. As the newest Dekley guitars are now over forty years old and most of them have been played by working steel players at some point this is a real possibility. 0ne reason why proper lubrication matters.

Do you have access to a pro steel mechanic?

If it's not broke we are can fixi that too...

[Jerry Dragon]

I am a retired machinist, so yes, I still have friends in the business. I have made lots of parts for PSGs but never fingers. I have loosened the strings and recentered them and tightened them up a few time to no avail as I have already stated. When doing this I inspected the fingers and didn't see much wear if any and as a machinist of 50 years I know what that looks like. I did NOT check the the fingers while loose for sloppiness. That will be my next task.
Thanx All

[Dave Grafe]

I am a retired machinist, so yes, I still have friends in the business. I have made lots of parts for PSGs but never fingers. I have loosened the strings and recentered them and tightened them up a few time to no avail as I have already stated. When doing this I inspected the fingers and didn't see much wear if any and as a machinist of 50 years I know what that looks like. I did NOT check the the fingers while loose for sloppiness. That will be my next task.
Thanx All

Sounds like you have a jump on most of us, this is a metal mongers playground! There's not much worse than an axe that won't cooperate, keep us posted on this mystery

[Fred Treece]

Check to see if the strings are snugged up against one side or the other of the notch in the finger where the ball end of the string fits. It might be possible to slide all the strings over to one side of their respective notches. This might not center the strings over the top of the finger, but it should even out the spacing.

You can see that the strings on this Dekley guitar are not evenly spaced because of where they are seated in the slots. I have a Carter, which sports a similar feature. I agree with you that this imprecision helps neither beginner nor expert player. I also now have a Williams, which solved the problem.

IMG_1926.jpeg

[Pat Chong]

Hi Jerry,
Do all of your strings shift, or just a few? Are they all pre-packed or have you changed some? Might it be the brand?

I'll share an experience which may apply:

I removed my #7 F# string so I could have a low E string (#10). The string I used I found was too light and would be too loose (and shift back and forth) if I lowered it. I fixed the problem by increasing the gauge of the string, and that may help you: Increase the gauge of the strings that shift. That will increase the tension on the string and make it more stable.

All my strings may shift a little, but not too much. (NYXL, if you wanted to know.) ....Pat

The Dekley fingers are pretty hard, according to an (unknown) article I've seen on this forum .....

[Jerry Dragon]

Check to see if the strings are snugged up against one side or the other of the notch in the finger where the ball end of the string fits. It might be possible to slide all the strings over to one side of their respective notches. This might not center the strings over the top of the finger, but it should even out the spacing.

You can see that the strings on this Dekley guitar are not evenly spaced because of where they are seated in the slots. I have a Carter, which sports a similar feature. I agree with you that this imprecision helps neither beginner nor expert player. I also now have a Williams, which solved the problem.

IMG_1926.jpeg

Mine looks worse. I will have to look into that.

[Bobby D. Jones]

When putting each string in the slot on slotted fingers. Align each strings ball 90 degrees to the string path. So the string can rotate and exit the slot in finger with no side pressure.
Just hooking the ball helter skelter in the slot, Where the string itself is catching on the side of the slots, The string under pressure will kink, and the string and ball will look like a (b or d) and will pull to one side of the slot. No amount of prying it over will allow the string to align in the center of the slot. And will not align with the finger.

Something I learned the hard way.

[Fred Treece]

When putting each string in the slot on slotted fingers. Align each strings ball 90 degrees to the string path.

Yep, that’s the trick, Bobby. And it’s a pain in the butt to get the strings to cooperate.

[Jerry Dragon]

When putting each string in the slot on slotted fingers. Align each strings ball 90 degrees to the string path. So the string can rotate and exit the slot in finger with no side pressure.
Just hooking the ball helter skelter in the slot, Where the string itself is catching on the side of the slots, The string under pressure will kink, and the string and ball will look like a (b or d) and will pull to one side of the slot. No amount of prying it over will allow the string to align in the center of the slot. And will not align with the finger.

Something I learned the hard way.

I am not going to mess with it at the moment. It is playing well. I just went through an over tuning nightmare which took me hours to get straightened out. I am not even sure of exactly what I did to fix it. I moved some rods on the bell cranks, adjusted pedal heights, etc., tune and retune. Sometimes I think I spend more time working on it then I do playing it. I intend to put a new set of strings on soon and will address this problem when I do. Hopefully it will remedy the situation. I played guitar for 60 years but am a novice on the PSG. I had never used finger picks before or played slide guitar much at all. I am still getting tangled up in the strings lol. Strings one and two pose a real problem. I am so used to when you move up a string on a guitar the pitch is higher. When you start soloing on strings 1 and 2 the brain goes into guitar mode and has a difficult time. I just learned engaging the B pedal will give me the 7th chord, that makes it a bit easier up there. It just goes against 60 years of habit. I don't think of this THING as a musical instrument but as a contraption lol. I never played much country music being a rock and roll lead guitarist and this is a lot of fun.