Locking Tuners With Hipshot?

[Douglas Schuch]

I saw a post here on the forum where someone asked about adding a Hipshot Double Shot to an Asher Jr. Hawaiian. A reply said it could be done, but locking tuners were required. I disagree, but didn't want to clutter up the "for sale" post, so figured I'd post here.

My experience/thoughts - first off, pedal steelers have been pulling strings for over 70 years and I've never seen a pedal steel with locking tuners (unless you want to count keyless models that "lock" the string). I added a Hipshot to my Tom Warner reso, and after looking at my bank account, and considering the previous statement, I chose to buy the Double Shot without locking tuners. I am a bit particular in how I put the strings on the capstan of my guitars (reso and pedal steel) - if pulling strings, it needs to be a method that locks down securely. But I've never had any problem with strings slipping without locking tuners.

I would advise buying them, certainly, but they are not absolutely required.

[K Maul]

In my experience, and I have quite a lot (knowing and working with both Paul Beard and Dave Borisoff, who invented the thing) they are totally necessary if you want to change tuning on the fly in the middle of a solo and maintain PERFECT accuracy of pitch. If you just want to change tunings for part of a set, do a little tweaking and go, then forget the locking tuners and roller nut.
If YOUR experience is truly otherwise, I can’t argue but I find it highly doubtful.

[Douglas Schuch]

If YOUR experience is truly otherwise, I can’t argue but I find it highly doubtful.

My only reply to your doubt would be to point out once again that pedal steel guitars are constantly raising and lowering pitch on strings through a song, and while there is the issue of hysteresis, that is not connected to slippage on the tuning nuts. Yet, as I say, I've never heard of a pedal steel guitar having locking tunings. It's well known, thought, that you have to properly secure the string on the capstan to avoid slippage. Pedal steels added roller nuts to facilitate the constant pulling strings 60 years ago, but have never used locking tuners. Perhaps there is something I'm missing that is different about a resonator or a lap steel, but nothing occurs to me. If it was a problem on psg, I'm quite sure Buddy Emmons, Chuck Wright, or Bud Carter would have invented one for pedal steels and everyone else would have adopted them.

I would certainly advise anyone considering adding a Double Shot on a new build to go with locking tuners. But I am not sure I could justify the expense when I had perfectly good tuners on my reso that I was confident would work fine. YMMV.

[Mark Mansueto]

I think a determining factor is how much you bend the notes. The deeper the bend the more chance you have to go out of tune.

[Edward Dixon]

Thanks for the topic, I really don't have an opinion on it but it has made me think.

I have 2 Schaller D-tuners on my banjo which are quite handy. I have a friend that had a Hipshot on his Bass and he was pretty proud of it but I couldn't see any use for it. My solution to re-tuning my guitar in-between songs is a Roland VG-99. It's instant re-tuning at the push of a button or foot switch. When I got it I wasn't into Dobro or PSG but this thread has got me thinking I need to install a GK3 pick-up on my Regal Back Lightning. It should be simple and I just happen to have an extra one as backup for the other 2 I have.

Thanks again for the topic.

Ed

[Douglas Schuch]

Edward Dixon - retuning a resonator guitar is a bit more involved than retuning a guitar as increasing or decreasing string tension on the resonator cone causes it (and thus the bridge riding on it) to move up and down, which causes changes in all the other strings. So tuning a resonator require you to tune up reasonably close on all strings, then tune up to pitch, but then go back once or twice more and tweak them. So for a resonator, it's a great idea. I've not felt any need to add one to my lap steels, but then I don't play them much anyway.

[Edward Dixon]

The hard part will be finding a COSM Resonator model that sounds acceptable.

[Greg Booth]

I have a National Scheerhorn L Body with the DoubleShot and locking tuners. Absolutely get them! I say that not so much for the tuning stability but because they are the nicest tuners I’ve ever used. Silky smooth, easy action and fast easy string changes without any extra wraps to wind on or unwind. I tend to agree with the argument that why does a tailpiece tuning changer need them when a pedal steel doesn’t… but they are so nice you want to get them anyway.

[Bill Hatcher]

A pedal steel has a roller nut on it. That’s one reason it does not need locking tuners. It does not “saw” the string through the nut slot.

[Douglas Schuch]

I think Greg Booth's comments make sense. But I am retired and have way too much money already in musical instruments and gear, so it was one place I could save a few bucks.

Bill Hatcher - the Doubleshot comes with a roller nut, and unless your reso or lap steel has the tuners perfectly in line with the slots in nut, I would think using the Doubleshot would be problematic. And since it comes with the roller nut, there is really no reason to not fit it. There is a reason pedal steels went to roller nuts back in the early 60's - they work, and make the pulls more accurate and more consistent.

[Jeff Highland]

Besides the ease of use with some locking tuners, the advantage is that you don't end up with a lot of wraps on the post which can interact with each other when using a tremolo or other pitch changing device.

It's really just the last improvement to tuning stability you can do after making sure that the string does not hang up on the saddle or the nut.

[Brett Bonner]

My solution to re-tuning my guitar in-between songs is a Roland VG-99.

Have you tried this yet? I'm about ready to install an old GK pickup of mine and onto a VG-8 I have around.