Late 60s Sho-Bud Baldwin Crossover Advice

[Liam Sullins]

Hey y'all. I'm about to get my first steel in a couple weeks. And I'm looking for some advice on it. I'm buying it from an older gentleman and what he did is take the beck neck off and use the front one. It's setup as a 3x3 right now, I'd like to put the back neck on and set it up again. Now from talking to a friend of mine he says it's a lot of work to do that. How can I put it back on when I get it and how much adjusting would I need to do?

Thanks!

[Jon Light (deceased)]

.....Now from talking to a friend of mine he says it's a lot of work to do that. How can I put it back on when I get it and how much adjusting would I need to do?.....

For someone who has a lot of experience with Sho-Buds in general and Crossovers in particular (not me--I've done a lot of work on my 6160 but that's all), this would be a large job. Maybe a very large job.
IMO it would be malpractice to try to guide a beginner in this job over the internet.

[Ian Rae]

It drives me nuts that people remove the rear neck.

Why did they buy the instrument in the first place?

If they don't want to play the back neck, then why don't they just leave it alone. Or learn it anyway.

[Ken Pippus]

It might be a large job, but you can be nearly sure it won't work worth a darn when you're done. But it'll certainly be heavy.

Go back. It's a trap.

[Jerry Overstreet]

My first question is do you have all the parts that came off it to re-install? If you don't have access to the neck, changer, pedals and every part that goes on the rear assembly, cross rods, bellcranks and the crossover linkage, then it definitely would not be worth pursuing.

If, on the other hand, you do have all the parts for it and lots of time and knowledge of the mechanics, then it's probably doable....or you could just install the back neck and changer and then set it up as a fixed tuning without the pedal changes.

I'd say it depends on whether or not the original parts are all there and whether you want to invest the time.

FWIW, the x-over I owned was sold for under a grand some 10-15 or so years back. I'm sure the value has increased a bit since then, but these old crossovers, pretty and great sounding as they are, just do not have a high value.

Value is determined by the owner of course, and it might be worthwhile to you as a project if nothing else.

[Liam Sullins]

My first question is do you have all the parts that came off it to re-install? If you don't have access to the neck, changer, pedals and every part that goes on the rear assembly, cross rods, bellcranks and the crossover linkage, then it definitely would not be worth pursuing.

If, on the other hand, you do have all the parts for it and lots of time and knowledge of the mechanics, then it's probably doable....or you could just install the back neck and changer and then set it up as a fixed tuning without the pedal changes.

I'd say it depends on whether or not the original parts are all there and whether you want to invest the time.

FWIW, the x-over I owned was sold for under a grand some 10-15 or so years back. I'm sure the value has increased a bit since then, but these old crossovers, pretty and great sounding as they are, just do not have a high value.

Value is determined by the owner of course, and it might be worthwhile to you as a project if nothing else.

All of the original parts are there he said. Sounds like an "ok" job if I have someone help me. I'm pretty mechanical with stuff like this or electronics. We'll have to see! He wants $900 for it right now. I'm thinking of offering $800-$850 cash. It's in great shape.

[Liam Sullins]

It drives me nuts that people remove the rear neck.

Why did they buy the instrument in the first place?

If they don't want to play the back neck, then why don't they just leave it alone. Or learn it anyway.

I've got no idea. I'd just like two necks! And the back one for "Night Life" lol

[Jerry Overstreet]

Best of luck Liam. Keep in mind that these guitars were lacking in knee levers. Mine only had one. I've seen pictures of some that had 2.

You may find that limiting playing modern music. Most modern D10 guitars have at least 4 and maybe 5 knees for the pulls that we require today.

Usually the right 2 levers doing double duty for both necks which I would consider minimum for Cth stuff.

[Liam Sullins]

Best of luck Liam. Keep in mind that these guitars were lacking in knee levers. Mine only had one. I've seen pictures of some that had 2.

You may find that limiting playing modern music. Most modern D10 guitars have at least 4 and maybe 5 knees for the pulls that we require today.

Usually the right 2 levers doing double duty for both necks which I would consider minimum for Cth stuff.

It's setup as a 3x3 right now. Thank you as well.

[Gene Tani]

This guy asked about rebuilding a crossover

viewtopic.php?t=358198

[Rick Abbott]

Depending on how the knee levers are installed, there may not be room to re-install the underside parts for the back neck. There are a couple different versions of the racks, too. If its actually late 60's, the racks are probably not going back in. If they are the smaller, more modular, type, you might get a couple pulls re-installed, enough for the 5 and 6 pedals.

Personally, I'd be inclined to put the back neck back on and leave it non-pedal. I play my back neck mostly non-pedal and use a "6th pedal" change sometimes. My Bud has 8 and 4, my bud-crossover has 5 and 2...no pedals on the back neck.

[Ian Rae]

I'd just like two necks! And the back one for "Night Life" lol

My first PSG was a D10. I didn't go looking for one, it was just the first that came up.

I got addicted to the C6 in no time and now I play a universal. I couldn't live without close harmony!

[Liam Sullins]

Depending on how the knee levers are installed, there may not be room to re-install the underside parts for the back neck. There are a couple different versions of the racks, too. If its actually late 60's, the racks are probably not going back in. If they are the smaller, more modular, type, you might get a couple pulls re-installed, enough for the 5 and 6 pedals.

Personally, I'd be inclined to put the back neck back on and leave it non-pedal. I play my back neck mostly non-pedal and use a "6th pedal" change sometimes. My Bud has 8 and 4, my bud-crossover has 5 and 2...no pedals on the back neck.

Forgive me for not being knowledgeable on steel but what would be a an average setup for a double neck? I was thinking at least a 3x4 but I don't know where to even start.

[Ken Pippus]

8&4 is the minimal standard.

Not applicable to the crossover, which theoretically allows you to use pedals in both necks, therefore 5&4 would be adequate.

John Coop said the best maneuver with a Crossover was to make it into an SD10, put the spare parts in a burlap bag and use them for an anchor. I would be interested in heating Ricky Davis’ take, but would be pretty surprised if it was different.

[Jim Bates]

Could you get us a picture of topside and bottom of what you have now. I sold my 1968 Xover to Coop several years ago.

On mine, I added a left knee lever (raise E's to F)is on top neck only.

If you happen to have my old guitar that coop was just starting to disassemble, I may have some spare parts you could use. Hint- on my guitar I added a tone and volume control. The color was red necks and red front, on black body.

Thanx,
Jim

[Jim Fogarty]

Liam,

I was offered a crossover for far less $$$ than that. After asking around and doing my own research, I realized it was such a rabbit hole that I passed. .......even though I REALLY want an affordable D-10, too.

I would seriously reconsider this one. PSG is difficult enough as it is. No reason to make it even more impossible with an instrument that you may or may not be able to get working properly.

Jim

[K Maul]

I think once a Crossover is converted to an SD-10 there’s no going back. Maybe buy it anyway and really spend time learning the E9 neck instead spending many many hours on a probable mechanical nightmare.
Then buy a good D10 and start on C6 after a couple years.

[Ian Rae]

I'm disinclined to contradict Kevin, but I spent equal time on the C6 right from the start.

I don't see it as advanced, just different, and what you learn on one neck doesn't interfere with the other - at least not for me.

[Jerry Overstreet]

I would not want to give anyone bad advice. I have owned one of these and have done service on a couple R&B Pro series Bud's, but certainly no expert on them.

Others say that re-installing parts of a converted D10 to SD10 Crossover may not be possible. I don't know the reason, but I defer to those more familiar with the procedure than me.

[Jim Bates]

A picture(s) of the bottom of guitar as it is, and a picture of any stuff (junk) that may have come off of it will tell the tale. I assume that Coop would have removed all the inside neck mechanism and removed the neck, then covered the hole with a pad. That's what he told what he was doing with the X-Overs.

Thanx,
Jim

[Liam Sullins]

A picture(s) of the bottom of guitar as it is, and a picture of any stuff (junk) that may have come off of it will tell the tale. I assume that Coop would have removed all the inside neck mechanism and removed the neck, then covered the hole with a pad. That's what he told what he was doing with the X-Overs.

Thanx,
Jim

That's what he did. All of the parts are in a box, and the neck is with it. Tuners, and all. There is a pad on top of the back neck.

[Liam Sullins]

Could you get us a picture of topside and bottom of what you have now. I sold my 1968 Xover to Coop several years ago.

On mine, I added a left knee lever (raise E's to F)is on top neck only.

If you happen to have my old guitar that coop was just starting to disassemble, I may have some spare parts you could use. Hint- on my guitar I added a tone and volume control. The color was red necks and red front, on black body.

Thanx,
Jim

I won't be able to get a picture until I buy it, but I can make my money back easy with this if I want to sell it. There are no tone/volume knobs. He got this guitar from his brothers son that passed.

[K Maul]

My final point on this is that a lot of Crossovers were converted not just for the weight loss but because the mechanism didn’t work well. I have one now that does work(see my avatar) but I had one that was not very good. Clunky, wouldn't stay in tune and the crossover lever kept slipping the works into limbo so neither neck would work. It’s a good possibility that the guitar here was one like that. Restoring it could be a frustrating endeavor.

[Jerry Overstreet]

I've heard a few complaints about crossovers have parts fall out and the device not working well. I think many of these problems were caused by activating the crossover mechanism to switch necks while pushing a pedal. A definite no-no.

I only had mine for a few months, but the mechanism worked just fine, no problems and it had a great sound.

It just didn't have enough knees etc. for the more modern setup like I use.

[Jim Fogarty]

I won't be able to get a picture until I buy it, but I can make my money back easy with this if I want to sell it......

Liam,

What makes you think that? When I was looking at buying one, I didn't find that to be true.

You seem insistent on buying this, so I doubt anyone's going to change your mind, but you're getting some sound advice here.

Good luck.