Tuning problem

Thomas Withrow · Post by **Thomas Withrow** » 24 Mar 2020 6:02 pm

Ok here is my issues. I bought a D10 msa classic and I don't play c6th neck so I stripped all the back kneck mechanics off the guitar and converted to sd10. Took all the c6th stuff and another cheap guitar that I bought and built a guitar. Everything is mounted and the tone is amazing but I can only get the 8th string to lower correctly. The 4th and 6th string lower will almost get to pitch and then the raise finger starts moving trying to raise the pitch back up. The 2nd string lower I don't care how much you turn the nylon tuner the string will only lower so far and no more. I'm sorry for the long post but I have tried every bellcrank and changer hole combinations with no luck and need some help with this issue. Is there a difference in a e9th changer and c6th or am I missing something any and all help is appreciated. Cause everything thing works flawless on my msa with the same setup.

Thomas Withrow · Post by **Thomas Withrow** » 24 Mar 2020 6:57 pm

Come on guys 16 views and no answers don't feel dumb cause I sure do but surely someone has had this problem I mean hopefully it's not just me and I am going to be alone to try and figure this out

Thomas Withrow · Post by **Thomas Withrow** » 24 Mar 2020 8:38 pm

Close it up I found the issue the return springs were just a tad on the stiff side

Georg Sørtun · Post by **Georg Sørtun** » 24 Mar 2020 10:48 pm

Thomas Withrow wrote:Close it up I found the issue the return springs were just a tad on the stiff side

Glad you figured it out.
Well known issue … lower-return spring should be tensioned to where the lower-scissor does not move during raises, and not more. Too high tension on that spring increases the risk of "lower-returns-to-raise", which is what you have experienced.

Oh, and most people in here would have the answer to that problem, if you just gave us time to see your thread and respond

Bobby D. Jones · Post by **Bobby D. Jones** » 25 Mar 2020 10:10 pm

Since larger strings move less in tuning to the same note. Loosen the 8th string tuner nut, Work on the 4th string adjusting stops, pull and return springs till it tunes. Then go to the 8th string and tune it.
Good Luck and back Happy Steelin.

Doug Hall · Post by **Doug Hall** » 29 Mar 2020 2:18 pm

Georg, there's much written about basic set-up in a stickie post, Overtuning and undertuning..." but your post is the first place I've seen the actual procedure laid out. Thanks, Georg, Thomas and all.

Georg Sørtun · Post by **Georg Sørtun** » 30 Mar 2020 2:52 pm

Doug Hall, glad you found the info useful

Guess there isn't enough space in the post you mention to get all the "basics" explained in full.

That lower-return spring is – technically speaking – in the wrong place for what it does, but as there isn't much space higher up (above all lower-rods), all All-Pull PSGs I know of have that spring down there at the bottom. And, adjusted properly it'll work just fine where it is – in most cases.

The exception is when one add an extremely long lower-pull on low strings, where some PSGs have too short a spring (tensions up too quickly relative to the weakening string-tension) to allow for adjustment to lower far enough without ending up with that irritating lower-returning-to-raise. Been there…