REECE Told me the Millennium

Gary Steele · Post by **Gary Steele** » 28 Jul 2006 6:47 am

I talked Reece last night and he told me the Millennium has had changes and modifycations since they started making them and told me they are much sweeter now in several ways. Like he said you constantltry to improve. I hope this is worded right. If not Reece can email me and i will make my adjustments also.I thought the first ones like the one i had was pretty terrific, SO! I only sold mine to pay some bills.

Darvin Willhoite · Post by **Darvin Willhoite** » 28 Jul 2006 10:50 am

I think the latest version is the M3, which has a quad raise, triple lower changer and there may be a few other changes. My M3 and Legend have the same mechanics and these are the best sounding and easiest playing steels I have ever owned, the Rolls Royce of steel guitars. I own some other brands too that I would class as the Cadillac's and Mercedes' if you want to compare them to automobiles.

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Darvin Willhoite
Riva Ridge Recording

C. Christofferson · Post by **C. Christofferson** » 28 Jul 2006 11:15 am

G or D, hello, could you inform as to what is meant by a quad raise triple lower mechanism?

Added later: Can i assume that any one of those options for one string can be either set to a halftone or a fulltone raise or lower or any combination thereof? Thx Gary and y'all for great info and pics.[This message was edited by C. Christofferson on 28 July 2006 at 06:20 PM.]

Doug Seymour · Post by **Doug Seymour** » 28 Jul 2006 11:32 am

four different raises & three different lowers
on each string. (if needed)

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 28 Jul 2006 2:24 pm

For a detailed view of the changer end
click here! Go to my web site below for additional detailed MSA pics.

Greg

<a target="_blank" href="http://www.gregcutshaw.com"><img align="left" src="http://www.gregcutshaw.com/Greg%20Williams%20Guitar.jpg" width="80" height="80" ></a>
Greg's Web Page
MSA/Steel King Sounds

Complete Songs Added 6/26/2006!

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 28 Jul 2006 3:40 pm

The bell cranks on the M3 have 14 holes, for extremely accurate tuning and adjusting..

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Warning: I have a telecaster and I'm not afraid to use it.
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My web site

[This message was edited by Mike Perlowin on 28 July 2006 at 04:40 PM.]

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 28 Jul 2006 4:10 pm

Bells cranks? click here and click here

Greg

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 29 Jul 2006 10:52 am

The 14-hole (or rather, "slot") pullers are considered a plus by many, but I find them unnecessary. I was disappointed when I heard MSA dropped the titanium pull-rods in favor of regular stainless steel rods.

I wonder if they're still an option?

Mike Wheeler · Post by **Mike Wheeler** » 29 Jul 2006 2:35 pm

Donny and Mike P., I counted only 12 slots in the bell cranks...did I miss something?

Just curious.

Mark Fasbender · Post by **Mark Fasbender** » 29 Jul 2006 4:11 pm

Mine has the older system with 4 positions and everything pulls fine. I took it to a rehearsal with a swing band and the solidity of the tone is something else. Everyone noticed right away. Impressive.

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Got Twang ?

Mark

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 29 Jul 2006 4:41 pm

I was told the bell cranks had 14 holes. I never counted them.

I was also told that the reason they stopped using titanium pull rods was that they don't work as well as the stainless steel ones.

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Warning: I have a telecaster and I'm not afraid to use it.
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My web site

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 29 Jul 2006 7:16 pm

Greg-re those Bellcranks slots staggered ? Looks like it in the 2nf picture. If so that would make the tuning pull even more precise than ever.

It is a big improvement. the older ones were more standard with the brass setscrew bushings. They worked good,but, Now these are hooks. I would think that it would be easier to change a tuning pull if a player wished to....al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 30 Jul 2006 3:29 am

Titanium would also be cheaper than stainless, and easier to work with.

Hook Moore · Post by **Hook Moore** » 30 Jul 2006 3:34 am

Your right Al, its extremely easy to add or change a pull. I just got a 05 M3 and changed the knee lever setup in just minutes. Donny, I don`t know if the titanium rods are better or worse than the stainless steel rods but I can`t imagine a guitar that plays or performs any better than the millennium.
Hook

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www.HookMoore.com

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 30 Jul 2006 10:34 am

Donny, I don`t know if the titanium rods are better or worse than the stainless steel rods...

They're better; in fact, they're almost twice as good!

Uhh...next question?

Reece Anderson · Post by **Reece Anderson** » 30 Jul 2006 12:09 pm

Should someone want titanium rods on their new MSA, all they need to do is specify.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 30 Jul 2006 12:39 pm

Stephen wrote:

"Titanium would also be cheaper than stainless, and easier to work with."

I'm no metallurgist, but one subject I have really been into for decades is bicycles, both road racing and mountain bikes. I know that in that application, titanium is historically way more expensive than stainless steel, so I can't figure out how it would be cheaper when it comes to steel guitar parts. Also, when working with titanium in bicycle frames and components, it has to be an absolutely sterile environment, so setting up shop to utilize this material is cost prohibitive.

The hardness of titanium (as a material) in bicycle building also burns through a lot more cutting tools and devices, so apparently requires a more skilled hand than working with stainless.

Once again-not a metallurgist-but what benefit would titanium have over stainless steel in this application for a steel guitar? Save a little bit of weight?

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Mark
[This message was edited by Mark Eaton on 30 July 2006 at 01:40 PM.]

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 30 Jul 2006 3:00 pm

Thanks, Mark! Of course, I got it backwards, and you caught it. I've worked around machine shops a lot, and I of course meant that titanium would be more expensive.
Again, thank you!

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 30 Jul 2006 3:40 pm

Thank you, Reece, for your answer here, as well as for the e-mail. It's good to know that MSA will still acommodate any customers who desire the titanium rods.

Mark, you're right on both counts. Titanium is harder to work with, and it's also more costly than stainless. However, it's not only the low weight that makes me embrace the material, but the thermal stability advantages. You see, in most every all-pull guitar (except for the old Fender cable models), the pedal tuning is adjusted by turning a nut on the pull rod. This nut is, in effect, a "length adjuster" for the rod, and when we adjust the nut what we're actually doing is changing the length of the entire rod to set the pedal tuning. Any thermal deviations in the length of the rod will therefore affect the pedal tuning. One (I feel) very important advantage of titanium over stainless in this application is that it is more thermally stable, it changes much less (dimensionally) with changes in temperature.

I fully understand that practically everyone else in the world is quite satisfied with the performance of stainless steel pull rods. But I, personally, just happen to think that titanium is superior.

I'm funny that way.

Mark Fasbender · Post by **Mark Fasbender** » 30 Jul 2006 3:48 pm

Never mind
[This message was edited by Mark Fasbender on 30 July 2006 at 04:49 PM.]

Mark Fasbender · Post by **Mark Fasbender** » 30 Jul 2006 3:50 pm

Donny...... A P/P guitar stops at the changer as well.

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Got Twang ?

Mark

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 31 Jul 2006 3:13 am

Has anybody compared the pedal action of 2 otherwise identical guitars, one equipped with steel rods and one with titanium? Is there a noticable difference?

Frankly, I can't imagine how the pedal action could be any smoother than it is on my M3 (with the stainless steel rods.)

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Warning: I have a telecaster and I'm not afraid to use it.
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My web site

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 31 Jul 2006 7:40 am

Mike, Reece informed me that if there was a case where two rods were touching, that the titanium rods would create some friction, kinda like when you rub two ceramic parts together. I feel that the rods can be routed so as to prevent two adajacent rods from touching. Once that is done, the pedal "feel" would be identical between the two. On short rods, I think that the stainless would probably work fine. However, on the longer (E9th) rods, I'd personally like to see titanium employed.

By the way, it was Buddy Emmons that turned me on to this "problem" (thermal contraction and expansion of the rods affecting the pedal tuning) on the all-pull guitars.

Darvin Willhoite · Post by **Darvin Willhoite** » 31 Jul 2006 5:25 pm

My old MSA Classic SS has Aluminum pull rods, which is effected by temperature even more than stainless. I have never noticed a problem with this, although I do almost always play in churches or my studio where the temperature is pretty constant. If I play outside I use my mica Fessenden which has stainless pull rods.

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Darvin Willhoite
Riva Ridge Recording