Fender 400 bridge and nut modified?

Russ Tkac · Post by **Russ Tkac** » 6 Dec 2005 1:16 pm

I saw this on eBay and it looks like the nut and bridge have been modified with rollers. Does anyone know if this is a Fender mod or not?

Jay Yuskaitis · Post by **Jay Yuskaitis** » 6 Dec 2005 1:23 pm

Original long scale Fender

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Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 6 Dec 2005 3:09 pm

Those anchors or extensions you see at the bridge are factory. the purpose was to shorten the length of the string to prevent breaking.That is one fine 400 guitar. More than likley a 57 model.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 6 Dec 2005 4:59 pm

That's the same nut and bridge as Sneaky's. My '57 1000 Does NOT have the roller nut or bridge, BTW.[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 06 December 2005 at 09:09 PM.]

Russ Tkac · Post by **Russ Tkac** » 6 Dec 2005 6:40 pm

Thanks for the info.

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 6 Dec 2005 8:16 pm

Jim those roller bridges were an in field modification done by saleman and Fender Service Centers. Shortly after the factory then made them stock from production. It is obvious if you have no bridge assembly as that shown in the photo, it was not modified in the field or at an "Authorized Fender Service Center" This information can be obtained in Richard Smith's book "Fender The Sound Heard Round The World".

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 6 Dec 2005 9:08 pm

Most of the early-types (flat pickup) that I've seen don't have the "in field" modification. It'd be interesting to look at one closely and compare it to the roller nuts on later guitars to see what COULD be used as roller nuts/brideges on the ones with straight bars.

Although my bar-type 1000, which I lube with dry Teflon lubricant, hasn't broken a string yet.

Followup - I just compared the pictures to my 1000, and 1) the bridge uses completely different positions for mounting holes. The stock ones use two vertical screw-through plates at the hog rings while the "upgrade uses 4 screws into the body; 2) the stock nut is mounted with two screws through the top - the mounting on the "upgade" isn't apparent. The "field modification" had to be pretty complicated with a bunch of drilling involved.[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 06 December 2005 at 09:14 PM.]

Russ Tkac · Post by **Russ Tkac** » 7 Dec 2005 1:46 am

This one looks like a mod. Is it possible to find these parts and upgrade a fixed bridge?

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 7 Dec 2005 5:57 am

It would be even better if someone made one to use the four existing scews rather than drilling four new holes.

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 7 Dec 2005 7:34 am

I wouldn't mind having rollers on mine. Maybe we can all chip in and have some made.

Tommy Spurlock in Texas said he had some made for his guitars. I'll call him and see if he has any extra. When I talked to hin a few months ago he said he was having a bunch of parts made. He plans on carrying on the Sneaky Pete legacy and is converting old cable guitar to rods.

Russ Tkac · Post by **Russ Tkac** » 7 Dec 2005 8:45 am

Dave,

Let me know what you find out. I'd like a set on rollers for an old 400.

Thanks,
Russ

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 7 Dec 2005 8:56 am

I was also thinking about talking to Gene Parsons who invented the B-Bender. He is a master machinest and has a shop 2 hours away. He also plays old Fender PSGs and he would understand what we're after. He charges $50 an hour just to draw the plans for the parts so I may try to generate some interest and sell some parts just to hopefully break even. I have some ZB parts in mind for him too.

Hopefully I'll move ahead on this after the Holidays.

Dave

I'll let you know.[This message was edited by Dave Zirbel on 07 December 2005 at 09:00 AM.]

Gary Spaeth · Post by **Gary Spaeth** » 9 Dec 2005 8:56 pm

i'd like to give making a roller bridge a shot. i have the tools to do it. send me some dimensions or a bridge if you can spare one.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 9 Dec 2005 10:44 pm

Gary - how about I send you the bridge and nut off my C6 1000 neck to measure for dimensions and mounting? I could include pics of the existing mounting as well.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 10 Dec 2005 7:09 am

OK, I've talked to Gary and the parts go out today if possible. This should be cool!!

Gary Spaeth · Post by **Gary Spaeth** » 10 Jan 2006 9:27 am

i sent jim's bridge back with a modification that might work. jim is testing it out now. cross your fingers.

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 10 Jan 2006 9:36 am

This really sounds promising!

Patrick Ickes · Post by **Patrick Ickes** » 10 Jan 2006 9:24 pm

I too am interested in this. I wonder if the great tone we all love from these guitars will be lost in switching to a roller nut. I'm looking forward to the results.
Patrick

Gary Spaeth · Post by **Gary Spaeth** » 16 Jan 2006 9:23 am

how's it working jim. better answer by email if it's a big flop. haha!

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 16 Jan 2006 10:02 am

Actually it seems to be working pretty well! I've just been busy and forgot to answer. The only downside is string changing - the moving parts tend to use gravity and go upside-down. When playing they work fine, though, with no discernable difference in tone.

Gary Spaeth · Post by **Gary Spaeth** » 19 Jan 2006 4:44 am

jim. i made those "slipper shells" so they would snap off the bridge by pulling up on them. as you put one string on you could snap the shell on first or leave the new string loose enough to pull it up and snap the shell on under it.

Gary Spaeth · Post by **Gary Spaeth** » 29 Jun 2006 8:42 pm

here's the idea behind what i did for jim.

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 29 Jun 2006 10:06 pm

this pic is posted on a couple of other threads. hot subject right now. Here's what Gary made - when I changed strings I didn't even them out...that's why the gaps...but it makes no difference. They work great. this neck is tuned to the top-8 of E9, and I have yet to break a 3rd...or any...string, and it's ben used a lot. Proof's in the pudding, and this is a great idea that works!

Tim Jones of Kansas · Post by **Tim Jones of Kansas** » 30 Jun 2006 8:48 pm

My 1000 didn't have any of those little 'hognose' clips when I got it but it did have the roller bridge.

After a few string breakages, I took some clips off an old 400 I have....

Result is LESS string breakage, and it's probably not completely avoidable in these old machines.

Tim Jones
~)Fender 1000 and nothin' else(~

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 1 Jul 2006 6:31 am

The hognose rings probably make more difference in string breakage than the bridge. With the rings the string ball end is at about a 45 degree angle - without and attached directly to the changer, it's nearly 90 degrees, and a weak spot in the system.