OK, How about the 7th String?

James Cann · Post by **James Cann** » 21 Jun 2006 3:20 pm

I've been d-----g with the 7th (F#) which when tuned (JI here) with the B's open, will not mix with A and B pedals down, F# being too sharp for the associated C# (or C# flat to the F#.

Comments on this LDG issue welcome.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 21 Jun 2006 3:37 pm

Good luck!

IMHO, the 7th will never sound right (pedals up and down) without some sort of compensator. Short of thaty solution, I think it's best to just tune it the way you use it most (pedals up or down), and then just slant the bar some when you want to use it the opposite way.[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 21 June 2006 at 04:38 PM.]

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 21 Jun 2006 4:17 pm

Many players just give up and avoid playing certain intervals, but you don't have to. If you Google "meantone" and "comma" you can find many ways to get all those intervals to sound good.

John Daugherty · Post by **John Daugherty** » 21 Jun 2006 5:17 pm

James, I tune my 7th string with pedals down so it will be in tune for the A6th tuning. It doesn't hurt to tune it about 2 cents flat with pedals down. Then it will be slightly sharp with no pedals. When the 7th string is played in a "9th" chord it doesn't sound so bad when it is a little bit sharp. When played in a 6th chord or major chord it is very noticeable for it to be flat. At least that's what my ears keep telling me.

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Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 24 Jun 2006 2:22 am

...you can find many ways to get all those intervals to sound good.

Ernest, maybe that's true for some people, some players can put up with hearing a lot of beats. I can't. What most players call "tempered", I call "slightly out of tune".

Billy Carr · Post by **Billy Carr** » 24 Jun 2006 11:42 am

On some of the guitars I've played over the years, I've had to switch from a .024W string to a .026W to get guitars to tune. I also raise the F# to a G# note on the same KL that raises 1 & 2. On the Carter guitars I've played, I usually had to use a .024W but now on the Rains guitar, I've noticed it seems to tune better with the .026W for some reason.

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 24 Jun 2006 2:07 pm

A compensator is the way to go for that problem if you've got sensitive ears. Gear it way down and put it on your A pedal. It does open up another can of worms - albeit a smaller can - tho and that is getting the compensated note in tune with the 9th string D. So some fudging still must take place unless you want to compensate your 9th string also. I play a U-12 so I don't have those particular worms. BTW,I compensate my 1st string slightly flat w/pedals down also.

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 24 Jun 2006 8:05 pm

Ever since way back in the early 50's, when I first started playing the E9-Tuning w/a pedal, everyone I knew back then always tuned the F# string Slightly~Flat to the (B) & Slightly~Sharp to the (C#)! In otherwords in between, which actually seemed to give the E9-Tuning a unique/acceptable blend both ways! (Pedal(s)~UP or Pedal(s)~Down) After more changes were added to the E9-Tuning, [as well as strings] some people, including myself tried just a slight~raise compensator to the F#-str. when lowering the (E)'s to (D#)'s. This gives you a good, ‘In~Tune’ for the B6th. This is the only time I compensate the F#-str. even today! I tune my 9th-str. (D) to match my 6th-str. w/B~Pedal=(A). I guess for each individual it either depends on your style of playing or helps to create your style! If you tune to 440Hz. tune the F# to 438Hz. If you tune to 442Hz, tune the F# to 440Hz. When lowering the (E)'s to (D#)'s, just nudge the 7th.-F# up, to match the (B)-str. [This only applies to str. #7, not #1!]
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[This message was edited by John Bechtel on 24 June 2006 at 09:10 PM.] [This message was edited by John Bechtel on 24 June 2006 at 09:24 PM.] [This message was edited by John Bechtel on 25 June 2006 at 08:45 PM.] [This message was edited by John Bechtel on 25 June 2006 at 08:47 PM.]

Marvin Stegall · Post by **Marvin Stegall** » 28 Jun 2006 10:37 am

JAMES> I THINK SOMEONE POSTED THIS , NOT SURE. BUT THE WAY I HAVE SOLVE THE PROBLEM,EVEN ON MY PUSH PULL,AND MY LG.111/WAS TO PUT ANOTHER BELL CRANK ON THE SECOND PEDAL >IN THE LOWER HOLE , AND IT WILL LOWER IT BACK IN TUNE' JUST THAT LITTLE BIT, AND OFF PEDAL YOU WILL HAVE IT IN TUNE PERFECT. HOPE THIS HELPED

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 28 Jun 2006 8:07 pm

I tune string 7 straight up as the 5th of the V chord with string 5 as the root. This also works good with string 7 as the straight up 2 of the E scale, and as the 4 of the relative minor scale. For the IIm chord with the BC pedals it is too sharp to be the root. But I pull the 8th string E up to F# with the C pedal, and use that as the root instead. I like the sound of the 8th string bending up in parallel with the 5th and high root of the chord bending up on the C pedal. That 8th string F# on the C pedal allows me to tune it flat to match the flat 5th and high tonic on the C pedal, which are tuned flat so the minor 3rd on the B pedal (tuned straight up) can be an appropriately JI sharp minor 3rd. But that still leaves the 7th string F# (tuned straight up) sharp as the 6th of the AB pedal IV chord. That hasn't bothered me much, because a 6th chord is a little dissonant anyway. But if it bothered me I would put a compensator on the B pedal to lower it a little. I wouldn't want the compensator on the A pedal, because that would mess up my relative minor scale with the A pedal.

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Student of the Steel: Zum uni, Fender tube amps, squareneck and roundneck resos, tenor sax, keyboards

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 28 June 2006 at 09:12 PM.]