Steel's coming back to perfect pitch??

Gary Steele · Post by **Gary Steele** » 15 Jun 2006 12:22 pm

what guitars have you seen that comes back to pitch all the time? A strobe tuner shows this every time. the write up on the Peterson Strobe tuners i read once that they are accurate and dont vary. I'm not sure if the nature of the steel even does this exact every time. This is why i'm asking what you have encountered.
Thanks, Gary.
[This message was edited by Gary Steele on 19 June 2006 at 01:00 PM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 15 Jun 2006 12:38 pm

If I hit a raise twice, the second time it will return to exactly the same pitch as the first time. Ditto if I hit a lower twice. This is true on all of my guitars.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b2005.gif" width="78 height="78">Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
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Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 15 Jun 2006 12:55 pm

Bobby, What are you hitting it with?

Gary Shepherd · Post by **Gary Shepherd** » 15 Jun 2006 1:26 pm

Maybe a lead foot?

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Gary Shepherd

Carter D-10

www.16tracks.com

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 15 Jun 2006 4:11 pm

You guys qwack me up.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 15 Jun 2006 5:03 pm

Yea, I've been eating to many qwackers,

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 15 Jun 2006 5:46 pm

My '70 Shobud professional that was refurbished by Coop does, then first break I check it, bur rarely need to touch it up. I use a VS II Peterson tuner. I also use Jagwire strings.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 15 Jun 2006 6:17 pm

James, what do you touch it with?

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 16 Jun 2006 5:35 am

Bobbe, It's kind of a secret, but I guess I can tell you. Magic picks---but don't tell anyone, ok??

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 16 Jun 2006 7:41 am

Unless i'm mistaken i havent seen total accuracy yet.

Unless it's affecting your playing, I wouldn't worry about it. Strobe tuners, and most good digital tuners, will show discrepancies that you'd never hear or notice. And supposing you had a steel that did maintain perfect pitch on all notes, could you play it it "perfectly"?

It's nice to argue about things like this when you're tuning your steel, i.e. just hitting the open strings, but when you're actually playing, when the bar hits the strings...all bets are off. Most modern steels do an acceptable job of playing in tune, whereas a lot of steelplayers don't!

I have a ton of records from decades ago, and tuning was not nearly such a problem as it seems today. That leads me to believe that a lot of steelers are relying on a tuner when they should be "using their ears". Am I insinuating that the new digital tuners have made a lot of players "lazy"?

Actually, yes.

No offense meant, I'm just stating my perception.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 16 Jun 2006 11:15 am

Donny, I don't agree with you on everything, but I sure do here on this.
The guitars do a lot better job of playing in tune than the players do.
Thank you Donny.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 16 Jun 2006 11:45 am

Yes, I confess that I often put the bar in the wrong place and play out of tune.
But if the guitar is out of tune with itself, it will sound out of tune no matter where I put the bar.
It's easy to get a steel to sound in tune if you only use 3 major chords and 3 minor chords at each fret. Maybe we are demanding more of our guitars nowadays.

I have a ton of records from decades ago, and tuning was not nearly such a problem as it seems today.

Are you sure that the steel on new records is more out of tune than on old ones? I doubt it, but maybe you just threw away all the bad ones.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 16 Jun 2006 11:49 am

In fact, I think a steel that is a little out of tune with itself sounds worse than a steel that is in tune with itself, but with the bar in the wrong place.

Gary Steele · Post by **Gary Steele** » 16 Jun 2006 1:36 pm

I'm not talking about playing in tune, I'm talking about when you tune up at that moment you would think they would all come back to the same pitch atleast until you do play some. I dont think i said it right in the beginning. If people dont hear just a little bit out how come you see so many people bumping their strings just a little bit every so often? Hope you know what i'm trying to say. ALSO I said perfect pitch meaning it coming back with a tuner. The Peterson tuner manual says they dont vary. You can read it on the Web Site.
Thanks, Gary.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 16 Jun 2006 4:00 pm

My strobe tuner has helped me stay in as close to tune as possible, which helps me develope a better ear, and helps me hear/see the difference in being in tune vs. out of tune, so that's my take.

I went through a few guitars that were quirky about tuning. When I got my present guitar, and with no tuning issues, my enjoyment increased greatly, as well as my progress. My practice went on with out the distraction of "keeping my guitar in tune so I can practice in tune", to just playing, and giving an occasional "check it to make sure it's still in tune". Anybody want my old tuning fork??[This message was edited by James Morehead on 20 June 2006 at 08:03 PM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 16 Jun 2006 4:58 pm

Donny, if you were a beginner, or even a pro, which do you think you could progress/perform the best on?

James, I wouldn't blame the guitar if I couldn't do a good job on it. I know that most any modern guitar out there will play better than I can. I can name you a dozen different pros (all whom I consider "top of the line" players), and they're all playing different brands! That tells me that any one of those is probably a fine guitar. (It wouldn't benefit a pro to use junk, would it?)

As far as the tuner thing goes, I know there's times when the noise won't let you hear what you're doing, and you rely on a tuner. I also know that they help beginners learn to tune. I have no problem with anyone using a whoopie-wow tuner. What I do have a problem with is a player that comes to always rely on the tuner (and someone else's presets) to get his guitar in tune. I simply feel that if you can't tune your guitar (in a quiet room) without a tuner, you'll never be able to play it in tune.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 16 Jun 2006 7:25 pm

I haven't heard of a whoppee wow tuner, can you recomend a dealer? Bobbe, do you carry that line? HA!! I'll stick with my Peterson.

I WOULD blame a guitar if it was hard to keep in tune, and wouldn't stay in tune. That's one of the reasons why the pros get top of the line equip, right. I see this getting into pointless pointlessness. Who cares. I'm outa here.

Mark Fasbender · Post by **Mark Fasbender** » 16 Jun 2006 7:35 pm

Oddly enough, the fender 2000 I just got is spot on. Lowers return dead on according to my VS2. Raises as well. No cabinet drop or raise either. I find I have to tune it differently due to the lack of drop in order to get it to sound right.

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Got Twang ?

Mark

[This message was edited by Mark Fasbender on 16 June 2006 at 08:37 PM.]

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 16 Jun 2006 7:55 pm

I use a tuner only to grab a pitch - tune to that pitch - one string - and then, believe it or not, rely on my ears to tune-up the rest of the strings.

And then - PLAY. Works pretty well for me.

I play by ear. That's why God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 17 Jun 2006 6:03 am

Do a search for "hysteresis" in the pedal steel section of the forum and you'll find a lot of stuff. Here's one: http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/012700.html
There was some agreement that Carters came back to pitch, moreso than many others. Beware, the threads usually devolve into "keyless terrorism" and cheesy hysteria jokes.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 17 Jun 2006 7:28 pm

And again I agree with you Donny Hinson. "If you have to have a tuner to tune your guitar, then you probably can't hear to play in tune", Did I understand that correctley?
I like it, I feel it has to be true.
Someone needs to invent a tuner to make you actually play in tune. Like a little hand to show you where to put the bar, that follows you around the fretboard.
Yea, that would do it, a tuner that stops your hand over the fret at the right place,

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 17 Jun 2006 7:29 pm

(please don't anyone take me seriously, unless you want to,)

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 18 Jun 2006 5:37 am

Wear and tear on a guitar will bring up issues about coming back in tune true.[This message was edited by James Morehead on 20 June 2006 at 08:06 PM.]

Gary Steele · Post by **Gary Steele** » 18 Jun 2006 8:13 am

The only reason i mentioned a tuner is because it shows exact every time while you are tuning up. I only put this on here to see how many people has a steel that comes back real close anyway. It only makes sence that people that dont use a tuner is probably not gonna be crazy about them. This was only for opinions. I did not ask for debates only your opinion.
Thanks, Gary.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 18 Jun 2006 8:45 am

If I hit a raise twice, the second time it will return to exactly the same pitch as the first time. Ditto if I hit a lower twice. This is true on all of my guitars.