Short Universal

[Jeremy Threlfall]

I'm looking over a short (10 string) universal tuning that raises strings 5&6 to C# and A# on P1 (at zero position)

is that an E9 change or a B6 change?

how is it used?

is P1 (zero pedal)where you might expect to normally find this?

[Rich Peterson]

Strings 7-6-5-4 give you an F# dominant 7.

[Jim Palenscar]

It is more commonly found as a 6th change and I refer to it as the "Ipanema" pedal or typical C6 P7.

[Ian Rae]

It's a good example of a change that is meaningful in both tunings, essential in B6 and useful in E9

[Bengt Erlandsen]

This change gives access to a lot of cool things on the E9.
If both 6 G#-A# and 5 B-C# are on the pedal I would suggest put it so it can be used together with knee lever that drop E's to Eb. More so than the Knee lever that raise E's to F.

Both those knee levers are useful however.
strings 7 6 5 4 3 with that pedal alone gives:
Root 3rd 5th b7th 9th
The levers that raise/lower E's give acces to the 6th or the natural 7th note in there.

If you have a knee lever that drop 6 G# - G, it can be split tuned w that pedal so you would have a maj7 chord on strings 6 5 4 3 Root 3rd 5th 7th.

The pedal can also be viewed as raising the root that would be on string 6(halfnote up) in the A+B pedal.

Together with the E's to F, this pedal takes strings 6 and 5 from beeing the 5th and b7th to becoming the 6th and Root.

IF next to the A pedal, on P0, then I would actually prefer 6 G# to A# alone as one can easily hit P1 also if one wants the B-C# as well.

Raising G#-A# together with E's to Eb would make the normal B7 a Bmaj7 and that can be useful as well.

B.Erlandsen
Zumsteel S12extE9 7+7

[Jeremy Threlfall]

Thanks - that’s a lot to take in (but I will - slowly!)

It’s going on a keyless guitar (I’ve never even laid eyes on a keyless before , let alone sat behind one) and I’m a bit worried that my 3 E9 pedals are going to be too far to the right for comfort, so I’m inclined to put it in the 4th spot.

My Es are on my right knee.

I flatten my G#s on my LKL and I will probably flatten my Bs on the vertical (will be the other new change for me with this set up). Plan to drop string 2 a semi and raise 9 (the B) three semitones (to D) on LKR. I can’t have a feel stop on 2 half way to a C# because of the big pull on 9.

Thanks for your input. I know nothing about C6 (B6) and this whole universal thing is a bit of an adventure for me.

I’ll make a proposed coped chart up overnight and post it tomorrow. I have a little bit of time up my sleeve to make adjustments to the plan (which was cooked up just today)

[K Maul]

I have that change on Pedal 4 on my 11 string “universal”. I have no open D in this tuning so with Eb lever in it is a full strummable chord. When played alone and down 2 frets, it makes a nice dom 7 voicing. I think it’s better on #4.

[Justin Emmert]

I'm looking over a short (10 string) universal tuning that raises strings 5&6 to C# and A# on P1 (at zero position)

is that an E9 change or a B6 change?

how is it used?

is P1 (zero pedal)where you might expect to normally find this?

Cowboy Eddie Longs universal tuning has a P0 raising 6 to A#. Combine this with P1 or A pedal raising the 5 and you have the same thing, which is the normal P7 change in B6/C6.

[Henry Brooks]

On E9 you only need to raise G# to A#. When you lower the E's and press the zero pedal it changes B6 into B major 7. Pressing the both the zero pedal and the A pedal, B's to C#, makes it a B major 9. So in effect you have both C6's pedals 4 and 7. Also the top of B major 9 is a D# minor 7, D#m7/B or a F#6. Without the E's lowered you have C6 pedal 6 and 7.
Henry

[Jeremy Threlfall]

I’d do that in a heartbeat (and may end up going that way) but for my perhaps groundless concern that my ABC pedals will be too far to the right for me. The equivalent of about the first 4 frets - and my LKL becoming a bit distant perhaps. I’ve never sat at a keyless before

[Ian Rae]

You'll get used to it like anything else. I have the Day setup on my uni, so I'm even further to the right with the centre line of my body level with the 19th fret. That's so I can rock on the 4th & 5th pedals. Parallax is parallax, and if you're using your ears, a bit more doesn't hurt.

[John Goux]

I have ABC in the center on one guitar. I find it to be more comfortable. With your knee levers adjusted to match, it is not an issue.
John

[Henry Brooks]

My guitar, a 1985 MCI SD-10, was built at the factory as a 4 pedal, 5 knee lever guitar. Originally it lowered strings 5 and 10 on P1 so the other pedals were ABC. The LKL isn't all the way over to the left so it is possible to easily get to ABF augmented chords. On the MCI there are extra holes for cross-shafts between the ones used for floor pedals. The LKL's cross-shaft is between pedals 3 and 4, B and C.
Henry

[Jeremy Threlfall]

Here's where we are as of this morning
Still not quite settled on the pedal placement (although strongly leaning to ABC left-most)
The vertical is doing Bbs because I cant think of anything else to put there.
I have 1&2 raise on the vertical on my Williams, but I don't need it and i'm a bit sick of it to be frank
(I think at heart I am a normal 3x4 E9 guy)

[K Maul]

If you don’t use B-Bb much, have you considered Es-F# on the vertical?

[Jeremy Threlfall]

Its not that I don't use the Bb much. Its just that i've never had it before and I have no idea how useful it is or not

Same with the E to F# of which you speak

Ive read up a bit on the Bb change, but Ive not heard of the E to F#, Ill check that out
Thanks Ken

[Henry Brooks]

As universal it would be better to lower string 8, E, to D rather than raise string 9, B, to D. At least that's the way I would do it.
Henry

[Paul Redmond]

By dropping the E to D, you lose the E note in a dom 7th chord. Think of the short Uni tuning as a 12-string E9/B6 Uni minus the two bass strings. On that setup, you pull the low B to D, and it is also used on the A6th side of the E9th tuning. When you're playing pedals-down, you are in A6th. If you want to go to your V chord, just pull off the pedals and pull your B to D....you never even move the bar.
PRR

[Jeremy Threlfall]

Thanks for the opinions on achieving the D

Im pretty much set on pulling the B up for the reasons outlined by Paul

any further views on the relative merits of the Bb change (an E9 tool) or the E to F# (no idea) on the vertical?

[Ian Rae]

I lower 8 to D and also raise 9, so that I have the choice.

[K Maul]

I prefer lowering E to D. More of a C6 type change. The E-F# change on vertical is easy to use with A+B down. In some cases used instead of switching to B+C. Look at Russ Pahl’s 2 pedal setup. Also good by itself for a Mooney type move.