Playing steel by "ear"

A. J. Schobert · Post by **A. J. Schobert** » 23 Apr 2006 3:05 pm

I have always looked up to musicians that can play a cd and pick it out on there instrument, I was starting to get the hang of this with my 6 string guitar but I hung it up when I got hooked to PSG, now it seems this is really alot harder to cypher out what I'm hearing, given the instrument playing may have 10 or 12 strings and e9th or c6th tuning, I try to use sheet music as a road map to help somewhat, any suggestions on how you got over this hurdle? Maybe this is why all the good steelers stand alone.

Smiley Roberts · Post by **Smiley Roberts** » 23 Apr 2006 3:16 pm

I try to use sheet music as a road map to help somewhat...

Are you referring to steel tablature? If you can read that stuff,consider yourself lucky. I can't read it. Nor can I read "real" music. The only thing I can read is the "Nashville number system". I,pretty much,hafta listen to the record,& try to duplicate it that way.

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<pre> ~ ~
©¿© It don't mean a thang,
mm if it ain't got that twang.
www.ntsga.com</pre>

Brett Day · Post by **Brett Day** » 23 Apr 2006 3:21 pm

I'm one steel player who plays along with records, and to me, it's the best way I know of to learn the steel. I'm not usually a solo player, but every once in awhile I'll teach myself how to play a song with no other instruments, and I'm not sure how I do it. The best advice I can give to a steel player who wants to learn a song by ear is to listen to what the steel's playing on a record, then see if you can do it the same way, or if you feel like you can't play what's on the record, try to come up with your own steel part. Brett, Emmons S-10, Morrell lapsteel, GFI Ultra D-10[This message was edited by Brett Day on 23 April 2006 at 04:23 PM.]

Wayne D. Clark · Post by **Wayne D. Clark** » 23 Apr 2006 3:48 pm

I'm with Brett on this one A.J.. When I was 12, I think I rember being 12, well any way My mother (rest her soul) talked me into taking Hawaian Guitar lessons on a 6 string no name. Read Music and all that, with the agreement that I could have a Lap Steel after a year of lessons. Well I got my lap Steal and proptly forgot what little understanding of notes and #'s & b"s I had learned. Got my self some 45RPM of Hank Williams and Hank Snow and started playing thos records over and over and over and over until I got their Steel Players licks and turnarounds. I have had to do that to this day. With the Pedal I start with learning the Cord progressions, then try the licks and trunarounds. I did learn to read Tab, and that helps, but I have to hear the music to get the feel of it. With E9th your A, B, Pedals and RKL & RkR (my set up to raise the lower the 4th * 8th strings) You can use a lot of what you already know from the lap steel on the Pedal such as your set up on the 10,8,6,5,4,3, strings and how the AB Pedal combo effects your cord changes. Well I have probably went on more than necessary. But playing by ear takes a lot of listining and trying.

Wayne
MSA D10 8/2

A. J. Schobert · Post by **A. J. Schobert** » 23 Apr 2006 4:42 pm

Thanks my 6string I was refering to is a standard guitar, Smiley yes I can read music but it does no good if you can't apply it to PSG, and guys that play by ear seem like they don't even have to deal with all that extra info. Tab does help, but truthfully it seems like a crutch, I use Tab off and on and maybe its just one of those things that will click.

Mike Winter · Post by **Mike Winter** » 23 Apr 2006 4:52 pm

I'm a play by ear guy as well: bass, 6 string and now steel. When trying to learn a new song, I find it helpful to figure out the chords of a song for 6 string, then play along on the steel with those chord changes in front of me. That way I know which chords to slide in and out of. The internet is a great resource for getting lyrics and chords. (Ha! The old days of having to keep stopping and starting records to get lyrics are over...for the most part!)

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Mike
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Blue Moon Highway
(Country Music...and then some.)
www.bluemoonhighway.com

Dan Burnham · Post by **Dan Burnham** » 23 Apr 2006 5:39 pm

A.J.

"Praise to BOB" Bob is the only one that I know that has detailed the steel guitar to the grand staff in music. There are a few ways to accomplish the task set before you.

1. You will have to take the grand staff and match your copedant to the grand staff.

2. You will notice that you will not have every note chromatically unless you add floors or knees.

3. On the notes that do not have match, you will have to indicate a pedal, knee combination with a bar slide of one.

Option 4, which I am having a blast with. Look on the forum under tunings focus on BOB's F Diatonic tuning for 10 or 12 string.

NO SLANT ON ANY PLAYERS ON THIS FORUM FOR WHAT I AM ABOUT TO SAY.

Most players play by ear, for the most part or read tab. I can count on my hand probably all the players that are crossover musicians which play other instruments and can sight read and play by ear.

No one to my knowledge has ever set out to write a course that ties these two together. If you want to get started reading and playing look at the F Diatonic.

In Closing,
I'm not critical of all the players. You have to understand that the Pedal Steel Guitar has to be the most complex but beautiful instrument in the world. It has the potential to do what no other instrument can do.

Try tying these lose ends together to develop a course that does what you want. I've working on this for 2 years.

Good luck and if I can help let me know.

Dan

Papa Joe Pollick · Post by **Papa Joe Pollick** » 23 Apr 2006 5:48 pm

Another "ear" player here that first works out the chords on 6 string,then I write the chords in-to "BIAB". Whats nice is being able to slow the tempo down and gradualy speeding it up to where it's supposed to be.After I'm comfortable whith it I transpose it to other keys.So, any song that I can play decently,I can play in several different keys.Work for me.PJ
PS good thread.

Larry Strawn · Post by **Larry Strawn** » 23 Apr 2006 6:28 pm

I used to lay in bed at night and in my mind I'd see these chord changes on my 6 string, then I'd tranpose them over to my
steel.
Now it's the same thing, except I'm seeing them on my steel guitar neck!

I'm finding now it's easier for me to pick up chord progressions on my steel rather than my 6 string, and since I play out of "positions" [right or wrong?] once I learn the song in one key I can play it in any key.

I do regret that I never learned more theory, I'm sure it would make this and the chord construction process a lot easier for me.

I agree the internet has made this process faster than spinning a record over, and over picking out the chords! lol..

Larry

spelling
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"Fessy" S/D 12, 8/6 Hilton Pedal, Sessions 400 Ltd. Home Grown E/F Rack
"ROCKIN COUNTRY"

[This message was edited by Larry Strawn on 23 April 2006 at 07:30 PM.][This message was edited by Larry Strawn on 23 April 2006 at 08:53 PM.]

Jeff Colson · Post by **Jeff Colson** » 24 Apr 2006 6:44 pm

I've played by ear all my life. 6 string, steel, or any thing else i've tried. Wish I could read music but I like to listen to a great steel part copy it as close as I can then put a little of my own phrasing on it. Even when I've learned to play something by tab through a course before I get it all the way learned I change it to suit me.

Jeff

Mike Randolph · Post by **Mike Randolph** » 24 Apr 2006 8:49 pm

Ear and number system, guess thats the way it will be.
Mike

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 24 Apr 2006 10:27 pm

Some one once replied when asked if they could read music, he said "Yeah, but not enough to interfer with my playing!"

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 25 Apr 2006 12:53 am

By ear, and the 'dots' only when required..

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Steel players do it without fretting

Don Walworth · Post by **Don Walworth** » 25 Apr 2006 5:23 am

I’m ambidextrous - I screw things up equally with either hand. Still at the stage of getting my finger picks on the correct fingers and facing the proper way. I can read music - can read tab - and read Nashville Number system. None of this helps at my stage of learning. Still working my mind the idea that just because the music is going up a whole step does not mean the bar goes “up” as well. Advantage I have is music theory (keyboard) - now I’m working on the mechanics of my guitar --- eye sees, mind converts, hands do their thing. Most times they get mixed up -- I think my hands have a mind of their own. Bottom line: am I having fun? You bet!! Thank goodness for this forum!

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Don

West Coast Double 8 Nashville 112

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 25 Apr 2006 7:45 am

Play by ear - they do get tired after awhile, though ....

Mark Lind-Hanson · Post by **Mark Lind-Hanson** » 25 Apr 2006 7:53 am

I do just sit down with records and see if what I come up with is anything close to what the steel player played- often as not though I try to play something else, along the lines of what a Second steel would play to that. One thing that I never got(but I'm much closer to it now) was the co-relation between notes on the staff and notes on the strings. The primary books (Winston/Scotty's)don't really have that- but Rusty Young's book does, & now am going to be busy with picking into that for a while up ahead. That was the biggest gripe I had about those two books. Once I can break
that little ground I think I will have a much better idea of the sort of licks & roadmap of where I am hoping to get to. I was always better at playing from ear or from my head than following sheet music but I DO read it & write it, but I just don't generally PLAY FROM it.

John De Maille · Post by **John De Maille** » 25 Apr 2006 12:53 pm

Being able to play music by ear, any music, is a true gift. I'm lucky enough to have that gift and it has served me well in my meager musical career. But, there are times when, I've stumbled upon a certain phrasing or a significant lick, that I can't readily find. That's where TAB comes in. Not all steel players set their pedal and knee lever pulls to a uniform copedant and sometimes those unique tunings cause a loss in an immediate find. By using Tab notation, ( if it's available for the tune ) you can usually figure it out, or can get very close to the tune. It's a tool to use, and I highly recommend it.
As to using actual music notation, you would have to know most, if not all, the musical notes on the fretboard, plus the pedal and knee lever changed notes. I can not read music proficiently enough to do that, so I play mainly by ear and use tab when I'm stuck on something. I guess it really comes down to what you're attempting to play on the steel. Complicated "Arias'" or orchestral movements would seem to be a nightmare for an "ear" player, whereas country, blues, rock, and some jazz shouldn't be to much trouble for an accomplished "ear", partime tab player. There are so many variants to this instrument, but, there are many ways to learn to play.

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 25 Apr 2006 1:43 pm

Another great tool is a "Slow-downer". There are several software programs and CD players that allow you to slow steel licks or solos down to 25-50% while retaining the original pitch.
In the old days we used turntables to slow down 33-1/3 rpm albums to 16 rpm (talking books for the visully impaired) which was pretty close to 1/2 speed.

I've always learned a lot from stealing other players' licks. The process improves your ear, elevates your playing technique, increases your lick vocabulary and provides a great launching point for own ideas.

Unfortunarely, it's very tedious work.[This message was edited by Tony Glassman on 25 April 2006 at 02:45 PM.]

A. J. Schobert · Post by **A. J. Schobert** » 25 Apr 2006 3:24 pm

I've been meaning to get a slow-downer tony thats good advice.

James Cann · Post by **James Cann** » 25 Apr 2006 4:33 pm

I've played by ear all my life.

As have I, and I'm always astounded at what I can do with steel when all I can do with 6-string is strum chords!

Go figure!

I’m ambidextrous - I screw things up equally with either hand . . .

. . . as for this, "I know S____'s Creek very well."[This message was edited by James Cann on 25 April 2006 at 05:34 PM.]

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 25 Apr 2006 5:08 pm

Here's what I do for the slow-down approach.

I use 2 different programs. The 1st one is Goldwave. This has the record option "what-you-hear". Anything played on the PC will be recorded. That recording can then be saved in a variety of formats including MP3 and WAVE.

I usually save as MP3.

Unfortunately, Goldwave has slowing down capability, but not pitch control, in the same move. The key is changed when slowed down.

So I go to Audacity which allows importing either a WAVE or MP3 file. Audacity can slow/speed the tempo without changing pitch.

A little bit of doing, but once you get the hang of it, it is a tremendous tool. Goes fairly quick.
www.goldwave.com costs around $50 [used to]
and http://audacity.sourceforge.net

Works well for me. It's great to be able to slow something down and hear it in a really different light. [This message was edited by CHIP FOSSA on 25 April 2006 at 06:11 PM.][This message was edited by CHIP FOSSA on 25 April 2006 at 06:13 PM.]

Mike Winter · Post by **Mike Winter** » 25 Apr 2006 5:54 pm

Chip and others if interested -- Windows Media Player plays mp3's, and it has the slow down function, and doesn't change the key. It comeswith Windows,so it saves having to buy something extra.

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Mike
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Blue Moon Highway
(Country Music...and then some.)
www.bluemoonhighway.com

Chip Fossa · Post by **Chip Fossa** » 25 Apr 2006 6:28 pm

Thanks Mike...that's good to know.

I bought Goldwave years ago when I had WIN98.

WMP didn't have that capability then.

And Audacity has been with me for the past 3/4 years.

I was unaware that WMP can do all that. I just don't take the time to read their tudors/manuals.

BUT, WMP probably can't do a lot of other things that GW & AUD can, like sound enhancements/effects.
Also, I don't think WMP can record "what you hear".

Anyway, I'm stuck with GW cuz I paid for it, dammit, and I'm going to use it, just for that reason. It's a good program, tho.

Thanks again.[This message was edited by CHIP FOSSA on 25 April 2006 at 07:32 PM.]

Tim Harr · Post by **Tim Harr** » 25 Apr 2006 6:38 pm

When I played in the US Army Band (Jazz Ensemble) the "joke" going around was : "How do you get a Guitar Player to turn down? ...."You put Sheet Music in front of them."

Those guys never messed with me much. I read and write music fluently and used to teach the Jazz improv master classes.

Good joke anyway..

Tim[This message was edited by Tim Harr on 25 April 2006 at 07:39 PM.]

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 25 Apr 2006 10:50 pm

Two great products are

1] "Slow-Downer" which is a software program that allows you to download songs. You can them slow them down w/o pitch change, make a loop change and ,to a degree, filter out other instruments.Approx $45 http://www.ronimusic.com

2]The "Tascam CD-GT" is a CD player that will allow you to record, slow down [w/o pitch change] and loop licks directly off the CD. This is the easier of the two, as it requires no computer interfacing.
It also has a guitar input, headphone out, many effects (including reverb and delay), a tuner and capacity to change song keys on playback.
Approx $175 http://www.tascam.com/Products/cdgt1mkii.html

[This message was edited by Tony Glassman on 25 April 2006 at 11:51 PM.][This message was edited by Tony Glassman on 25 April 2006 at 11:53 PM.]