4 Piece Band

Chris Langman · Post by **Chris Langman** » 17 Apr 2006 1:34 am

Only been playing a couple of years, but I'm always trying to introduce steel into our set....normally I play 6 String....We are a 4 piece....drums, bass, and 2 guitars/vocals....it always seems a little undercooked when replacing the 2nd guitar with the steel. Any thoughts, or is it generally thought that the steel needs a bigger ensemble to earn its keep? Should I just try harder?

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 17 Apr 2006 2:15 am

With a 4 piece unit it is not just about replacing one Instrument..It is also about the Other players knowing how to play music with the added Instrument..

2 guitars, very common..

replacing one with a Steel..also common..
but it requires the OTHER guitar player to understand how to work with a Steel...

Without that ..

it's gonna be a ruff ride...

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TPrior
TPrior Steel Guitar Homesite

Billy Carr · Post by **Billy Carr** » 17 Apr 2006 2:45 am

I've worked off and on for years in four piece bands. That's mainly where I got in the habit of keeping both hands on the steel until the song is over. Over the years I was able to pick up licks off of some fine lead guitar players as well as, keyboard players. Here's what has always worked for me in that situation. Playing the same patterns on steel you hear off of the other instruments such as a vamp(Memphis) or playing full soft chords in the background behind a singer, lead man or keyboard. Basically, I always try to create a full sound without any empty spots, as another instrument would do, except on steel. Also picking up fast guitar licks and runs from everything from ZZ Top to Don Helms helped me especially whenever I played with lead men that like to play stuff like Orange BS and then turn around and do something like 15 Years Ago. I call it a catalog of licks, etc. One other thing I learned many years ago is that regardless of how good a player may be or may not be, that person usually has a lick or run I don't have. I use every chance I get as a learning experience to pick up little things form everybody. This is just my .02 worth of info that usually don't amount anything but good luck and keep pickin'. Only one way to go and that's up!

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 17 Apr 2006 6:35 am

That's why I took up 12 string E9th. When the guitarist is doing leads or fills, I can cover those low-mid rhythm parts. It's hard to do on a standard 10 string.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b2005.gif" width="78 height="78">Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
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Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 17 Apr 2006 6:40 am

I played in a four piece band for a few years - Guitar, Bass, Steel, Drums.

The guitarist was the lead singer and did a great job of playing licks while he was singing. While I was playing with them, I purchased my first 12-stringer. Having those extra low notes really helped when I had to keep the rhythym going when the guitarist took a ride.

Lee

Ken Thompson · Post by **Ken Thompson** » 17 Apr 2006 9:16 am

A four piece is all I have ever played with except on some shows when we had the luxury of a keyboard. I have learned to just play some fill rythem while the lead guitar is playing. I seldom have my fingers doing nothing. I play an S10 and was very interested to see the comments on the 12Universal. I have never sat down at one (never had one available).

Do the extra two strings requier allot of re-training to play it reasonably well or is it a pretty easy transition. You guys have peaked my interest.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 17 Apr 2006 9:45 am

I've been playing an E9/B6 universal since the mid 1980's. b0b plays an extended E9 tuning. In any case, the extra low E and G# (A with the pedal) really come in handy.

Lee

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 17 Apr 2006 9:50 am

Extended E9th is really easy to get used to if you're already a 10 string E9th player. The extra strings are tuned an octave below your 6th and 8th strings.

The only "required" pedal change is the G# to A on pedal 2 for the 11th string. Very simple.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b2005.gif" width="78 height="78">Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog

Larry Strawn · Post by **Larry Strawn** » 17 Apr 2006 12:53 pm

Chris,
To me a 4pc. is ideal size. Don't give up on it keep trying.
If the guitar player hasn't worked with a steel before, it might be a good idea for the two of you to discuss it, and work out a plan of attack so you're not steping on each other, And you remember when you're backing him with soft fills, and chords, that's exactly what you're doing, backing him! Make him and the music sound the best you can, and hopefully he will repay you with the same!

This coming week-end will be my first gig with my U12, I'm looking forward to it, hoping the added bottom end will help fill our sound out some.
The main thing, I'm hoping I don't make a total fool of myself with this strange guitar!! lol..

Larry

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"Fessy" S/D 12, 8/6 Hilton Pedal, Sessions 400 Ltd. Home Grown E/F Rack
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David Wren · Post by **David Wren** » 17 Apr 2006 2:26 pm

it always seems a little undercooked when replacing the 2nd guitar with the steel

Might try having the band members each look at how they can "minimize" what they're playing. Too many double-guitar bands just "pound" away at the song, sort of full tilt from start to finish. Try stripping everything that's not essential out of the song altogether, then add to that clean sound in a dynamic manner. This will help the band in general, and really put the steel to great use.

For the last year I've been playing rock music with bass, drums, acoustic rhythm, mandolin and pedal steel. I am way too spoiled.

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Dave Wren
'96 Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Twin Session 500s; Hilton Pedal; Black Box www.ameechapman.com

[This message was edited by David Wren on 17 April 2006 at 03:27 PM.]

Jim Eaton · Post by **Jim Eaton** » 17 Apr 2006 2:37 pm

I have recently moved from 10stg E9 to 12Stg Ext. E9 and the added bottom end has really made a big difference in the fullness of the sound I am able to get when playing with 2 acoustic guitars in a coffee house setting.
JE:-)>

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Emmons D10 8/4 P/P -75'
Fessenden SD-10 3/5
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76'Session 400
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Ken Thompson · Post by **Ken Thompson** » 18 Apr 2006 7:25 am

Thanks for the replys and explanations on the Extended E9th. Especially yours Bobby Lee. Simple and to the point. I am really giving it some thought.

Thanks for the email reply Tommy C. It sounds like a pretty easy transition to make with substantial benefits in adding variety to your sound.

I apologize for my spelling. I read back my posts and noticed the terrible spelling. Is there away to use spell check with the forum?

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 18 Apr 2006 7:39 am

There's no spell checker, and don't worry about it. We're more interested in your thoughts than your spelling.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 18 Apr 2006 1:02 pm

This reminds me of a comment that Buddy made about the "Suite Steel" album he did w/Sneaky Pete. On the song "Yesterday", he said that when Pete played backup and he played lead, everything was fine. But when he had to play backup to Pete's lead, ..."the bottom dropped out" was, I believe, his words!

Playing good rhythm and backup is an entirely different skillset (or maybe, I should say "mindset"), than playing lead stuff. You've got to think chords and voicings rather than counterpoint melody and soft pads. Even a 10-string offers a lot of backup possibilities if you stay in the low registers. When playing this type of stuff, I seldom go above the 5th string, and I play a mostly 3-note chords. If you want a "full sound" from a stripped-down group, you gotta do a lot of playing! Most steelers I know just stop playing when they're not doing lead, or just play soft pads, but there's a lot you can be doing to add to the sound.

I play a lot of piano-type backup and lead guitar style stuff to "fill the holes". How I learned was just playing all types of songs with just a bass and a drummer - no lead guitar, no rhythm guitar. Yes, it was scary at first, but it was good training too![This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 18 April 2006 at 02:18 PM.]