Stringing Question

Alan Sim · Post by **Alan Sim** » 17 Mar 2006 9:33 am

Hi Guys

Well,it's 2 questions really.

1)When changing strings,do I back off the pedal tuners on the end of the guitar,before I put the new strings on?

2)What would happen if I back them off too much,do I just screw them back in again,or would I have a problem with the changer?

Thanks

Alan

Nic du Toit · Post by **Nic du Toit** » 17 Mar 2006 9:51 am

Hold it!!!!
Why would you want to do that??????
Just back off the string tension at the machine head, remove the string, and put new one on....tighten, and check tuning once all the strings have been replaced.
Regards, Nic

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Alan Sim · Post by **Alan Sim** » 17 Mar 2006 10:04 am

I was thiking it would cure my out of tune problem.

Every time I tune the strings at the keys,the pedals go out of tune,I re-tune the pedals,play a couple of bars,and the pedals are out again.

I need to put a new set of strings on,and I am trying to cure this annoying problem which has been going on for a week now.

It's usually the B (5th)string that goes out.When I re-tune the pedals,the open tuning is out.

I am hoping it's user error,but I'm open to suggestions.

I spend more time tuning than playing.

Alan

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 17 Mar 2006 10:17 am

Alan,
I'm not familiar with the WBS student model guitar (whether it is a push-pull, all-pull, or other changer design), but, as my friend Richard Burton suggested in another thread, it sounds as though you do not have enough pedal travel on your A pedal (B to C#). Most guitars have an adjustable stop where the cross shaft meets the pedal rod that determines how much throw or travel that pedal has. On some guitars you can increase throw slightly by making a change at the bellcrank but it sounds to me that your best solution would be to increase the travel of the pedal. You may need to loosen the nylon nut (if it's an all pull guitar) for the 10th string to allow for the additional travel.

If you don't have sufficient pedal throw to make the change the open note will go sharp when you tighten the tuning nut for the raise pull. Until you increase the throw you will keep fighting this battle. Good luck.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Alan Sim · Post by **Alan Sim** » 17 Mar 2006 10:40 am

I am reluctant to touch anything in case I mess it up completely.

It didn't have this problem when I got the guitar,so I was thinking it was something I have done.

But all I have done is raise the A+B Pedals using the adjuster on the Pedal rod.
I didn't think that would have such an effect.

I followed Richard's suggestion,and for that day,all was OK.Now I'm back to square one.

Alan

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 17 Mar 2006 11:24 am

Alan,
Try this on the fifth string:

Back the nylon tuner off so that it is not touching the changer finger.

Now, wind it in slowly, at the same time pluck the fifth string.
As soon as you hear the string rise in pitch, you know that the nylon tuner has contacted the changer finger.

Back the nylon tuner off fractionally, so that the string goes back to the correct pitch.

Now, press the A pedal.

If the note is flat of the desired pitch, you definately have to increase the pedal travel.

Make sure that you are not on thick carpet, as this will inhibit pedal travel.

Edit:
Another thought has occurred to me.
Maybe the lower return spring is not tight enough.

When you press the A pedal, look at the spring on the bottom of the changer finger.

If it moves, tighten it up slightly (assuming there is provision to do so), until it remains stationary when the A pedal is pressed.[This message was edited by richard burton on 17 March 2006 at 11:31 AM.]

Alan Sim · Post by **Alan Sim** » 17 Mar 2006 12:12 pm

Richard

I hope I don't regret telling you this but,NONE of the white nylon adjusters are touching the changer,there is a small ammount of thread,say 1/4 to 1/2 inch sticking out of the changer,then the nylon adjuster starts.

It's been like this since I got the guitar.

Are there any pictures on the net of how it should look?

Alan

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 17 Mar 2006 3:07 pm

hmmmmmmm. . . .
Are you sure the bellcrank for the 5th string on the A pedal is tightly secured to the cross shaft? Are the cross shafts round, hexagonal, or square? (or something else)

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 17 Mar 2006 3:36 pm

Alan, go here...
http://www.onlinesteelers.com

There's 40 steelers listed in the U.K.. One of them has to be close to you. Send them an e-mail, and ask for some help. Don't stay "in a vacuum" trying to figure out everything on your own. There's good information here, but some things are so much simpler when a person can check out your problem first-hand.

Meanwhile, here's what the tuner-end should look like...

[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 17 March 2006 at 03:38 PM.]

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 17 Mar 2006 10:52 pm

Looking at the WBS website, the steel appears to have square cross-shafts.

It also has a pedal stop arrangement similar to a Williams steel, ie the pedal travel stop is in a fixed position, and it's 'at rest' position is adjusted by a long grub screw (if I am interpreting the photos correctly).

Therefore, to tune the fifth string, for example:
Tune string to B at keyhead.

Press pedal A, make sure it is contacting the fixed stop on the front apron of the steel.

Tune string to C# (with pedal A pressed) using the nylon tuner.

Release pedal A, and decrease/increase any slack in the pull-train by adjusting the long grub screw on the crank arm that the pedal rod connects to.

Edit:

I don't like the way the pull-rods fix into the bell crank.

The rod is bent at 90 degrees, but has a large bend radius, which could possible bind up in the bell crank hole, causing tuning instability.

When I used to build steels, I found this out the hard way, and thereafter always ensured that the inside bend radius was as small and as sharp as possible.
[This message was edited by richard burton on 17 March 2006 at 11:01 PM.]

Alan Sim · Post by **Alan Sim** » 17 Mar 2006 11:16 pm

Richard

You are correct,the WBS does have Square cross shafts,and there is a lot of slack in the rods that connect the pedals to the changer.

What I can't understand is,why this has happened now?

According to the manufacturer,the strings originally fitted were Jagwire 12/36 light,I am using Jagwire 12/38,I would not have thought this was the problem,many players use different gauge strings without problems.
As previously ststed,the only other adjustment I have made is to raise the A/B Pedal height.

The mystery continues.

Alan

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 18 Mar 2006 1:43 am

Alan. Where in Lancashire are you.. Give me the postcode and I'll put it in my 'Road Angel' and after next weekend, I'll pop up and help you.

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Steel players do it without fretting