Tuning underneath the guitar on P/P

Bob Watson · Post by **Bob Watson** » 11 Dec 2005 1:59 am

My P/P Emmons uses a nut to tune the 4th string raise ( E to F's ). Its hard to find it without putting the steel upsidedown in the case, and its also hard to turn it if it is going against the spring. Is there anyplace that I could buy something to replace the nut that is bigger and easier to turn. I have an MSA Sidekick that tunes underneath the guitar and they have a little wheel ( I have heard the term "thumb wheel" used to describe such things ) that is easier to find and turn than a regular nut. Does Emmons make something similar?

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 11 Dec 2005 2:34 am

Get a hexagon-headed bolt with the same thread (I don't know the US thread sizes) and drill it out.
Hexagon is much easier to grip.

Emmons standard

Hexagon tuner

Bob Watson · Post by **Bob Watson** » 11 Dec 2005 12:38 pm

Richard, thanks for the reply. From your pics it looks as if that is what I already have on it. I was hoping to find something bigger, like a wheel, that would be easy to feel for while you are sitting behind the steel tuning it. It does look as if what I have is better than the original Emmons part that is in the 1st pic you posted. Maybe I'll just have to get used to tuning it while its in the case. <font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Bob Watson on 11 December 2005 at 12:40 PM.]</p></FONT>

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 12 Dec 2005 9:10 am

Bob, You need to train you hand to be able to instantly find that knurled tuner and be able to tune it while you are sitting at your steel. It needs become second-nature, and a complete non-issue.
It's the nature of the beast.
No matter how big of a drilled out bolt or thumb-tuner you use, you need to be able to reach under and tune it without issue.
Also, I reccomend using original Emmons parts as much as possible. You can order knurled tuners from Emmons that have a better grip than the ones in the top photo.

Steve Dodson · Post by **Steve Dodson** » 12 Dec 2005 9:27 am

Pete, you nailed this one right on the head.

Chris Lucker · Post by **Chris Lucker** » 12 Dec 2005 10:18 am

You don't need it, but if you have a hard time gripping the tuning screw head it may help if you have an aluminum spacer after the head of the drilled through cap screw rather than going straight to a shaft collar. The spacer gives you more finger room and can turn freely but the locked shaft collar will resist your turning. In the Emmons Pic above you see the shaft collar right on top of the tuner.
For a pull-release Marlen with bellcranks sort of like the Emmons cranks I added some tuners. I machined the tuners out of some narrow thumb screws I ordered from McMaster Carr. They were 10-32 18-8 Stainless and had a nice finger width diamond knurled head. I also ordered some wider screws made of brass in case I had problems center drilling the stainless screws. I had machined some heavier bellcrank swivels out of bearing bronze to hold the fatter tuners, but never needed them.
McMaster Carr is www.McMaster.com and the thumb screws are called narrow thumb screws. I remember that I shortened the length of the knurled area by some amount because I faced-off the end of the screw (sorry for the lathe talk.) McMaster also has the drills you would need for center-drilling.
I had a better experience drilling these stainless thumb screws than I have had drilling the common black cap screws. With the black cap screws I seem to break 20 percent of those I center drill. They break somewhere along the threads -- sign of heat, not enough cutting fluid and off-center drill. These stainless thumbscrews were easier to drill than the black cap screws. Or at least the few I did did not break. They look better than the simple cap screws too.
If you use 0.125" rods, buy a few extra thumb screws. I cannot imagine I drilled a 0.140" hole, but I may have. I have forgotten how much material there is between the valleys of a 10-32 screw, but there ain't much!
Chris

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 12 Dec 2005 11:57 am

I just turned over my Simplicity lawnmower and it looked just like those pictures!!!

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 12 Dec 2005 12:43 pm

I've thought of using my steel as a cheese grater, but lawn mowing has never occurred to me !!

There is no end to the uses for these things!!

Brendan Mitchell · Post by **Brendan Mitchell** » 13 Dec 2005 8:23 pm

On my first guitar I used a rubber band looped onto the rod near that little knurled tuner and had no trouble finding it to adjust . Lately I never worry about tuning that change .
Brendan