Universal B6/E9 instead of E9/B6?

John Poston · Post by **John Poston** » 9 Dec 2005 9:16 am

I've been messing around with some tuning ideas and it seems I keep moving towards universal ideas.

Anyway, I haven't found too much searching around here, but does anyone have a universal setup where they normally have D# and raise to E with a KL instead of the other way around?

For me, I think having more of the C6 changes are important, and then work in as much of the stock E9 as possible. I might set up the bottom 10 of these as a trial run. Here's what I have so far, any comments or thoughts are appreciated.

<pre>
LKL LKV LKR A B C 5 6 7 8 RKL RKR
----------------------------------------------------
F#|
D#| D
G#| A
D#| F F# E E
B | Bb C# C# C#
G#| A A# A
F#| F
D#| F D E
B | D C# C
G#| A
E | F D#
B | C# G#
</pre>

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 9 Dec 2005 10:04 am

A coupla thoughts...
You should check out the Bb6th guys, as they are doing what you are talking about (just a half step lower).

Also, To open up your 6th side, you might change your first 3 strings to D#, G#, F#.

Consider adding F#>G to P5 on your high F#.

Consider adding B>C on string 5 to P8. If it's there, you can either use it (tons of great Hawaiian and Swing applications, fwiw, it's a pretty common C6th knee lever change), or just back it off if you don't want to use it (tons of jazz stuff, not to mention Foxy Lady!).

Also, alot of the Bb6th guys lower both Eb's to D on P6 (speaking B6th terms). I have gone to this and like it alot, (sub 2 frets back with P7 for the lost P6 voicing).

Alot of big fatties available with P6 combined with the B pedal, and also P8 (with the 5th string raising to C) combined with the B pedal (you might want to duplicate the B pedal somewhere that'll make it easy to use it with the 6th pedals (again, it's a pretty standard C6th knee lever).

The biggest liability in this setup (to me) is the accuracy of your Eb>E lever when playing E9th. If that's not dead on every second you are playing "E"9th...
I would probably use a stand alone change lock (not hooked to any other levers/pedals) for that issue, but that's another can of worms.

"I think having more of the C6 changes are important"

Great topic for like minded S12U players.
I know I think of my rig as B6/E9.

[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 09 December 2005 at 12:51 PM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 9 Dec 2005 10:04 am

http://b0b.com/tunings/JoeMurray.html

Joe doesn't have a "C" pedal. I think that the raise from D# to F# on the 4th string E might be a mechanical problem on some guitars.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 10 Dec 2005 3:16 am

I think that the raise from D# to F# on the 4th string E might be a mechanical problem on some guitars.

I assumed the same thing, but somebody who plays a Bb5 universal told me it's not a problem.

John Fabian · Post by **John Fabian** » 10 Dec 2005 3:56 am

Note that this setup has 4 raises on the fourth string.

You'll probably have problems keeping the 4th string in tune when using lkl and p3 in "E9 mode". A change lock will not solve this problem.

Other than that it is pretty standard stuff. In fact if you tune the D#'s to E and lower them to D# on rkr, you have a standard E9/B6 Universal. [This message was edited by John Fabian on 10 December 2005 at 03:58 AM.]

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 10 Dec 2005 7:50 am

John speaks the truth.

I've played E9/B6 from the mid-70's to now and I started out on Bb6 -- Reece's version from that era. It's a question of how much you use E9 and how much you use B6. I use both equally -- often in the same tune -- I'll use the A6 A+B position as often as the E to D# B6.

There were a number of problems that were inherent in using B6 as the open tuning. I MUST have the C pedal and tuning 4 to D# requires raising to E, F, and F#. If you use the standard C6 P6 change (raise 4 D# to E and lower 8 D# to D in B6) that's four raises. Most changers have problems with four raises on a given string. A universal tuning taxes the mechanism more than a single tuning anyway and I found that balancing the raises with lowers is a better solution for me.

Many things are possible and you might find that tuning to B6 works better for you. There are several players around who use a B6/E9 universal tuning, but, as with any tuning -- ESPECIALLY A UNIVERSAL TUNING -- it may involve compromises.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 10 December 2005 at 07:56 AM.]

Jerry Hayes R.I.P. · Post by **Jerry Hayes R.I.P.** » 12 Dec 2005 7:34 am

Hey John, back in the late 70's while I was in SoCal at the old Foothill Club I used a setup similar to yours except I tuned the 1st string to C# and had the G# as the 2nd string and the F# on string 3. It worked great except I wound up holding the D# to E lever in a lot so I changed it back to the more standard setup of E9/B6. I think if I ever gigged in a western swing band I'd consider doing that again 'cause it really made it a lot easier playing that stuff...JH in Va.

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Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!!

[This message was edited by Jerry Hayes on 12 December 2005 at 07:35 AM.]