Diminished Chord ?

Larry Phleger · Post by **Larry Phleger** » 6 Dec 2005 11:24 am

Bob Hoffnar Recently posted a question regarding the use of augmented chords. What are some uses for the diminished chords using the E To F lever? Any feedback will be appreciated.

John Egenes · Post by **John Egenes** » 6 Dec 2005 1:21 pm

Like augmented chords, diminished chords are a great way to get from one chord to another, that is, to change keys or chords using ones that don't normally fit into the key you're in.

There are 4 notes to a diminished chord, and they're a minor third (one and a half steps) apart from each other. So, if you've got a Cdim chord, you've got C-Eb-Gb-A notes. This means that this chord is also an EbDim, a GbDim, and an Adim chord (you can just invert the chord to get these....). Now, try this: just move ONE of those notes either up or down a half step: say, Eb to E. You can now make up ANY chord with the note: E in it, say E major, E minor, A minor, A major, C major, G major, G diminished... etc. It's a way to get from one chord to another. You could also change the C to B and get Bmaj, Emaj, etc.... any chord with a B in it. You can change any of the 4 notes. By the way, there are really only 3 diminished chords, and then they just become inversions of themselves. Same as augmenteds (there are 4 of them) You can use augmented chords exactly the same way.

Like augmented chords, diminished chords aren't normally ones you land on and stay there. They're used as transitions to get to get from one chord to another. They're a really good way to change keys.

Larry Hamilton · Post by **Larry Hamilton** » 6 Dec 2005 1:21 pm

I use it a lot going from a I to a IIminor in the pedals down position. Nice passing chord. Clarification...F lever isn't used with pedals down, that is an Aug.

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Keep pickin', Larry

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 6 Dec 2005 1:25 pm

I usually use a diminished voicing as a passing chord to create tension, and consequently, chord motion and interest in a simple chord progression. One common example would be as a passing chord when moving from I to IIm (e.g., C to Dm7) - for example, C - C#dim - Dm7 creates motion and interest in an otherwise static I - IIm change. There are many other uses as a passing chord.

Notewise, there are only three unique diminshed chords, apart from the ordering of the notes (or voicing), and they repeat every 3 frets.

I'm not far from you - let me know if you ever get to lovely Happy Valley. Always happy to talk steel and music. I do visit my buddy Ken Drake up you way from time to time.

Larry Phleger · Post by **Larry Phleger** » 6 Dec 2005 2:56 pm

Thanks for the information. This really helps me see how some things I have been doing work, and gives me some ideas of other things to try. Dave. I have known Ken Drake for many years. We have jammed on several occasions. It's a small world. I'll give you a call some time. Maybe we can get together and share some ideas.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 6 Dec 2005 8:17 pm

Very often it is used between IV and V ( #IV) as a passing chord in jazzy blues
D9, D#dim, E9

And also as the VII to I change
Bdim to C

Also it's close cousin
minor7 b 5 is used similarly.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 06 December 2005 at 08:17 PM.]

Ernie Pollock · Post by **Ernie Pollock** » 7 Dec 2005 5:02 am

9 -8F - 6- 5 should give you a diminished chord.

Ernie

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Jim Eller · Post by **Jim Eller** » 7 Dec 2005 8:15 am

Could some one please tab some example for the learning impaired like me?

Thanks,
Jim

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 7 Dec 2005 8:47 am

<pre>
It Came Upon a Midnight Clear

---G-------------C---Bbdim-G-—C—G----

1------------------------------------
2------------------------------------
3------------------------------------
4------------------------------------
5-----10^10A-----8A^8--5--3—--3A^3---
6------------10--8-----5--3—--3B^3---
7------------------------------------
8--10------------8-----5F-3---3------
9------------------------------------
10-----------------------------------
</pre>

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Drew Howard - website - Fessenden guitars, 70's Fender Twin, etc.

Steve Knight · Post by **Steve Knight** » 7 Dec 2005 9:42 am

You'll also find a IV# diminished between the IV-to-I change in bar 6 of a 12-bar blues. As an example, take bars 5-8 in a jazzy version of the blues in the key of C:

F(or F7) |F#dim. | C(or C7) | A(or A7)

---F---F#dim---C----A----
1------------------------
2------------------------
3------------------------
4------------------------
5--1-----1-----3A---5----
6--1-----1-----3B---5----
7------------------------
8--1-----1F----3----5----
9------------------------
10-----------------------

I like that one because the bottom note climbs up from F, F#, G, A.

SK

Charles Turpin · Post by **Charles Turpin** » 7 Dec 2005 10:57 am

There is so much i do with these diminish chords that I just like to have fun with them. But the trick is to know When to return to the normal playing. I call the dim chords the in- between chords cause i experiment so much with them that i put them inbetween everything i want to add a lot of spice to. Want to have a lot of fun with is to take the 5th and 6th pedals, and plant your foot on them then relearn your minor and major7th scales with Your foot down.On the C6th neck. Then if you want realy have some fun.While you are playing a major scale with the foot down raise your pedals as you are playing the major scale giving you chromatics of them notes.Each time you raise your pedal you are going to be returning to another key that goes with that dim you are playing. Remember that open your 5th pedal gives you a D9th tuning with a few extras and your 6th pedal gives you a F9th with some extras. WHen you put both of them down you are playing C<Eb,Gb,A or Bb diminish chords depending on if you are using the KNee lever that raises the A to a Bb which with no pedals and that knee you are playing a C7th dominant. SO if you drop one of the other knees or levers you have 7ths equal almost to the 1,2,4th dominant 7th chords. the only one missing in the 1,3,5, 7th dominants is the G7th it is 2 frets up with the 6th pedal. This gives you some bar movement so can use the one up dim chord. We what can we do with a wild man on single notes in chord changes like this. We can have a lot of fun and improvise with all of this. I just wish there was more ways to get Augmented chords on the C6th like there is the diminish chords. To me the E9th is more the Augmented chords and the C6th is more into the Diminish playing to me it seems that way cause of the way the pedals and knee levers are set up. I just thought i would tell you some of my ideas i have with picking the Diminish chords. lots of luck!!!

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Larry Phleger · Post by **Larry Phleger** » 8 Dec 2005 6:10 am

Thanks everyone. This has really helped me put things in prospective.

Drew Howard · Post by **Drew Howard** » 9 Dec 2005 7:58 am

larry,

If you don't have it, get Jimmy Day's "Steel and Strings" CD. The second half of the CD is all ballads, with tons of diminished slants (also achieved by an F lever). Great examples of diminshed chord usage all over the CD.

<pre>"Please Help Me I'm Falling"

F Gbdim Gm

5---8^8A^8^6^6A--
6---8B-----6^6---
7----------------
8---8------7^6---
</pre>

cheers,
Drew

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Drew Howard - website - Fessenden guitars, 70's Fender Twin, etc.

[This message was edited by Drew Howard on 09 December 2005 at 07:59 AM.]

John Steele (deceased) · Post by **John Steele (deceased)** » 9 Dec 2005 10:14 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
Now, try this: just move ONE of those notes either up or down a half step: say, Eb to E. You can now make up ANY chord with the note: E in it, say E major, E minor, A minor, A major, C major, G major, G diminished... etc.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

John, could you elaborate on that a bit, because I'm not understanding what you're saying there.
There's no E natural in an Eb diminished scale.
I agree that you can lower any note in the voicing, and treat it as the root of a 7b9 chord, but I can't see the raising thing at all.
Thanks !

-John

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