P/P Changer ?

Roger Light · Post by **Roger Light** » 29 Nov 2005 9:22 am

Can someone tell me why these pull rods go all the way to the fingers with a hook in them, when most of the push/pulls I have seen have a little wire going from the pull rod to the changer finger? Is this some kind of "hy-bred" guitar or did Emmons make some like this. Thanks, Rog[This message was edited by Roger Light on 29 November 2005 at 11:43 AM.][This message was edited by Roger Light on 29 November 2005 at 11:44 AM.][This message was edited by Roger Light on 01 December 2005 at 06:10 AM.]

Bob Knight · Post by **Bob Knight** » 29 Nov 2005 9:29 am

Roger,
i can't see the pic., but it sounds like you are looking at the push(lower rods) which do go directly to the changer??

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 29 Nov 2005 10:36 am

Roger, you need a more specific link. I get the Webshots home page, but no picture from you.

Carlos Polidura · Post by **Carlos Polidura** » 29 Nov 2005 11:10 am

no pics....
carlos

Roger Light · Post by **Roger Light** » 29 Nov 2005 11:18 am

Pic should be there now![This message was edited by Roger Light on 29 November 2005 at 11:47 AM.]

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 29 Nov 2005 12:40 pm

I doubt if this setup came from Emmons. I think it its somebody else's idea of how it should be done. The problem I see in what is shown in the picture is that there usually isn't enough room between the pulling fingers to get anything in there except for that thin wire that Emmons uses. If you hook the wire on the top hole it isn't bad but sometimes it is necessary to tie into one of the lower holes for proper pull action and that's where you would run into problems.
Erv

Frank Parish · Post by **Frank Parish** » 29 Nov 2005 12:53 pm

It looks like the first and third strings are being pulled at the lower finger instead of the raise finger. Maybe it's just in a lower hole. Does it stay in tune? What does it play like?

jim milewski · Post by **jim milewski** » 29 Nov 2005 12:56 pm

the potential problem I see is that the hook holes had to be drilled oversize leaving a minimum of stock on the sides of the fingers. It looks like whoever made the pull rods did a nice and even bending job.

Roger Light · Post by **Roger Light** » 29 Nov 2005 1:08 pm

It plays and stays in tune quite well, But then I graduated from a Sho-Bud Baldwin(sp?) crossover to this, so I was in Heaven as far as the staying in tune part. It always returns true. I played a buddy's the other night at pactice and I could not tell any difference in the two. His is all original. I guess it doesn't matter as long as it works good. I just thought I would ask on here, as the two looked indentical except for those rods. Oh, and mine has fat fret makers and his thin. What's up with that?

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 29 Nov 2005 2:50 pm

There is a difference in Emmons fretboards. Some have thin lines and some have wide lines. I bought a Emmons LeGrande II a few years ago and it "just didn't look right" and it really bothered me when I played it. I got to checking it out, and sure enough, it had the wide fret lines. I got ahold of Ron Lashley and he sent me a fretboard with the narrow lines. I liked it a lot better.
Erv

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 29 Nov 2005 6:14 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if that type of rod hook-up robs the guitar of a little sustain! (Ask Bobbe!

)

Mike Cass · Post by **Mike Cass** » 30 Nov 2005 5:25 am

Ive seen that bit of "re-inventing of the wheel" before........ the one I saw didnt play too swift until I installed factory raise rods w/shock springs. That kind of setup in the pic is very hard on parts as the added stress due to lack of springs puts a real strain on parts that are secured by the 8/32 set screws ie; cranks,collars etc.
An intersting concept,but not too practical,imho.

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 30 Nov 2005 11:55 am

Looking at the photo,I can't see any advantage in rodding it that way.
If the standard bellcranks are used, then the pedal/lever travel will be way too much.
My (uneducated) guess is that whoever put this together didn't know that there are two more holes in the changer fingers, and obviously didn't know about the thin wire hooks.
I can look at the underside of my pp with renewed pride

Roger Light · Post by **Roger Light** » 30 Nov 2005 1:42 pm

Thanks for all the input everbody. My concerns are well founded in that I was afraid I didn't have an original p/p. It does play well and will serve its purpose. I'm guessing it's just not worth what I thought it was and may explain why the serial # doesn't match up to any of the lists I have found on the net. I don't feel so bad about selling or trading it for a more modern guitar now!
Keep smilin' (and steelin')

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 30 Nov 2005 2:00 pm

Roger, I would not be all that concerned if I were you. It appears to be a good guitar that someone has replaced the pull rods. It looks like you need to replace the pull rods with proper rods or have someone do it for you and set it up properly. There are many guys on the Forum including me that you could send the guitar to and get it back like it is supposed to be. Or, post some photos and sell it to one of us. I can't see that you have a major problem.
Jerry

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 30 Nov 2005 2:39 pm

At least it was done up waaaaaaay neater than that British guitar. What a mess!!!

[This message was edited by Erv Niehaus on 30 November 2005 at 02:40 PM.]

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 30 Nov 2005 2:57 pm

Burton, there you go again, you honestly are a lot of entertainment for us P-P guys, and don't get me wrong, you are a great guy, I just don't understand the way you think, but that is what makes the world go 'round I 'spose.
Anyway Richard, I hope you can visit my store someday in the future and see how and why we, in the colonies, (USA), use the Emmons P-P the way it was designed by the factory.
Then if possible you can explain to us, your P-P theorys.
Richard, I'll buy lunch.

Mr. Light, your guitar will never be as good as it was designed with the "Modification" it has had bestowed upon it. The original wire hooks have a very useful use, and shouldn't have been replaced.
What looks good on paper doesn't work out in practical application at times.
I'd be looking for a stock changer if I were you, if for no other reason than to restore the great value that your guitar had.

Bobbe

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 30 Nov 2005 9:54 pm

Very Christian of you Erv, thanks for showing your true colours

Dave Burr · Post by **Dave Burr** » 1 Dec 2005 7:34 am

Erv said:

At least it was done up waaaaaaay neater than that British guitar. What a mess!!!

Erv, That was down right rude! Shame on you.

Dave Burr

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 1 Dec 2005 8:24 am

I have to agree with Bobbee, to take a p/p and do a number on it like shown in the photo borders on sacrilege.
It would be like painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa or taking a hammer to a Rolls Royce!

[This message was edited by Erv Niehaus on 01 December 2005 at 08:52 AM.]

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 1 Dec 2005 12:04 pm

Erv,
Have you forgot to take your medication today

Your examples are a little over the top, as any mods done to my Emmons can always be removed, and the steel put back to original.

Bobbe,
My push pull ideas are way ahead of their time, I am now fairly sure that the world is not ready for them

Peace
R B

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 1 Dec 2005 12:49 pm

Richard,
My apologies if I came on too strong. It's maybe because I just got through rebuilding an Emmons p/p and it looks nothing like yours, no offense please. I have some pictures being developed and maybe someone will post them for me and you can see the way I like the underbelly of a p/p to look.
Take care,
Erv

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 1 Dec 2005 9:09 pm

Back when I did construction work the old guys would come over and look at my work and say something like, "Looks worse than a baboon's a** laced up with bamboo;" or "Looks like the south end of a baboon walkin' North." I eventually sought another line of work.